Influential and controversial televangelist John Hagee has apologized to Catholics for referring to the Roman Catholic Church as the “great whore.” Hagee is supporting Sen. John McCain for president, which has led some Catholic leaders to criticize McCain.
I would urge people not familiar with Mr. Hagee to watch him as he pontificates in his dynastic church ( he shows up on all the protestant religious channels) – he has quite a bit to say about everything – before accepting his “apology” at face value.
He’s on the forefront of the Christian Zionist movement. Here is an interesting article from Rolling Stone magazine by a secular political writer about his time at Hagee’s church. [WARNING: The article is very mocking in tone and language]
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20278737/jesus_made_me_puke/print
So Evangelist Hagee has told the Great Whore of Babylon, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.” I did not see anything in his apology about retracting the Great Whore description, which I am sure he has used on more than one occasion.
The person who accepted this “apology” knew that this was the most he was going to get.
[size=1][color=red][url=http://resurrectioncommunitypersonal.blogspot.com/]The Rabbit[/url][/color][color=gray].[/color][/size]
As a graduate of an evangelical fundamentalist seminary and former Roman Catholic, I can tell you that what Hagee spouts about the Whore of Babylon is par for the course. He would be less than truthful, I believe, if he retracted that. I’ve read any number of books on Revelation from a fundamentalist viewpoint and without exception, Rome is the Apostate Church (they may have to add its little sister ECUSA to that!).
He also regularly tells jokes that demean women. I don’t know how he manages the “wife” jokes he tells without getting killed at home!
As for apostates, technically, John Hagee is not a real Christian. There was a minor controversy three months back when he declared that Jesus was not the Messiah. So, I guess it takes one to know one!
Here is the Youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaANKNoAjgw
Many people believe that the RCC is an apostate church. It’s not only fundamentalist Baptists. Many of the Eastern Orthodox believe the RCC is apostate. IMHO, if one were to clearly and without bias examine the passages of Revelation, it’s not referring to the RCC. However, the RCC will be a [u]part[/u] of the system (not, THE system) and the False Prophet will most likely be the Pope at the time of the Antichrist. This is why ecumenism is NOT a good idea.
-Vincent
I watched the clip, Vincent. So when is John’s appointment for a proper ritual circumcision, since he denies the Messiah and upholds the Jews?
[size=1][color=red][url=http://resurrectioncommunitypersonal.blogspot.com/]The Rabbit[/url][/color][color=gray].[/color][/size]
Ho-hum. So what else is new?
Hagee is entitled to his own interpretation of Scripture, even if it is in front of TV cameras and his flock, however tactless. Maybe he’s stuck in the fundamentalism of the 1920s, or maybe the Reformation era. Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox, and many other Reformers also publicly identified the “whore of Babylon” of Revelation 17 and 18 as the R.C. church. Shucks, even some traditionalist Catholics today say the same thing about Roman Catholicism as it has existed since 1969 or Vatican II.
The Catholic Jerusalem Bible identifies the (political) Babylon of Revelation as Rome. It was easy for many Protestants to make a connection between political Babylon and ecclesiastical Babylon. Muslims take the comparison farther. They identify the United States as the main component of political-ecclesiastical Babylon/Rome; it is the “great Satan.” (When is the last time proper liberal ecumenists got lathered up about THAT interpretation?)
Mercifully, evangelical scholars have been out front in steering their brothers and sisters in the pulpits and pews into enlightened hermeneutics. One hardly ever hears such interpretations as Hagee’s from major evangelical pulpits today.
BTW, when is the last time you heard any EPISCOPAL priest preach on Bible prophecy at all?
w.w.
Hagee is simply AWFUL. I’m astounded that McCain’s handlers didn’t advise him to avoid the guy in the first place! I don’t think McCain was familiar with this old-time bigot’s views, or he would have avoided him in the first place. (Though it’s hard to miss him in the South.) Hagee and his high-living ‘ministries’ are downright embarrassing to Christians.
Actually, with the Church Fathers, I would dispute that Hagee or anyone else is “entitled to his own interpretation of Scripture.” This is part of the problem with a radically democratic ecclesiology. If you mean that he can’t be stopped from spouting off, well, of course, you’re right, but I think that’s different than being entitled to his idiosyncratic interpretation of Scripture. Even thoroughgoing Protestants should understand their responsibility to the Great Tradition, although we may not be under the stricture of ecclesiastical structures.
It’s interesting that Kendall Harmon has posted Pope Benedict XVI’s Pentecost sermon immediately above this article today. I defy anyone to read that sermon and then justify the claim that the Roman Catholic Church is anything close to what Hagee, and apparently others here believe.
The Roman Catholic Church is categorically NOT the “whore of Babylon” referenced in the Revelation to John, nor in the wild imaginations of John Hagee and the rest of you. If anything, the Episcopal “church” would have to be the front runner. Who denies the divinity of Christ? Katherine Jefferts Schori and her gang of progressives. Who proclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings? As far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that abortion is wrong, that homosexuality is wrong, that divorce is unacceptable and a whole host of things that make the Episcopal Church look like kindergarten.
Try again, folks.
[blockquote]The Roman Catholic Church is categorically NOT the “whore of Babylon†referenced in the Revelation to John, nor in the wild imaginations of John Hagee [b]and the rest of you . . . Try again, folks.[/b][/blockquote]
DaveW, to whom are you writing?
Hagee is McCain’s Rev. Wright.
Hagee is McCain’s Rev. Wright.
Wrong, stupid and lame.
For a politician to accept an endorsement means nothing. It’s like accepting money. For a politician to endorse another person, as Obama did for Wright until the truth came out, is quite another thing.
12:
All right, I admit my post is directed only to LA Anglican and Vincent Lerins.
So, LA Anglican: the Roman Catholic Church is not apostate. Vincent Lerins: the False Prophet isn’t going to be any Pope.
Dave W,
I never stated I believe the Church of Rome is the Apostate Church.
If Hagee and his followers have through this managed to shed even a little bit of their anti-Catholic excesses, then it’s a good thing. Rabid anti-Catholicism is very common among Protestants of this general type.
But Hagee has never been a close associate of McCain’s, so this isn’t the same kind of problem that Obama has with Wright.
Vincent,
For the record, Hagee is not a Baptist, if that is what you implied. He graduated from Assemblies of God theological schools (and North Texas State U.). Following his divorce in 1975 and allegations of adultery, the Assemblies defrocked him, and he became an independent Pentecostal. He served on the board of regents for Oral Roberts University for some years. Cornerstone church (founded 1975) has grown to nearly 20,000 members, with more than 8,000 at the Sunday services (according to a San Antonio Express story).
w.w.
#17, Katherine, my analogy was to prod thought and discussion. So thanks for your thoughtful reply. In addition my analogy, like all analogies, was not to say these are identical situations: for example, Hagee is not McCain’s Pastor and Wright was Obama’s, or that Obama quickly repudiated Wright’s statements whereas McCain needed weeks of prodding from the Catholic League to categorically repudiate Hagees, and the like.
The analogy was to suggest parallels, which I think there are: both candidates have been embarrassed (and political hurt) by these high profile pastors. Both pastors have a history of incendiary rhetoric which degrade public discourse and divide peoples, and the like.
I agree with you that Obama has a bigger problem but I don’t think McCain will come out of his associations unscathed.
#13 – respectfully, no way. Was Hagee ever McCain’s pastor, friend, mentor? Quite a different situation.
What I find mildly irritating is when people “apologize” for holding views that incense people when publicly expressed. If that is what you really think… and you think you have good reason to say/believe that… then dangit [i]stand by your convictions[/i]! Do I think Hagee is dreadfully wrong about the Catholic Church. Oh yeah. But why do people backpeddle on their convictions when they create a stink? If that is what Hagee really thinks (no one disputes that) then blimey mate say it loud and say it proud.
[i] Mercifully, evangelical scholars have been out front in steering their brothers and sisters in the pulpits and pews into enlightened hermeneutics. One hardly ever hears such interpretations as Hagee’s from major evangelical pulpits today.
BTW, when is the last time you heard any EPISCOPAL priest preach on Bible prophecy at all? [/i] – W.W.
That’s the problem. Most evangelical churches aren’t teaching the truth when it comes to eschatology, one of the biggest deceptions being the pre-tribulation rapture of believers. John Hagee also teaches the pre-tribulation rapture. However, his denial that Jesus is the Messiah should cause people to flee his church. Ministers need to spend more time preaching and teaching on eschatology, after all, we are in the last days. Prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes.
[i] The Roman Catholic Church is categorically NOT the “whore of Babylon†referenced in the Revelation to John, nor in the wild imaginations of John Hagee and the rest of you. If anything, the Episcopal “church†would have to be the front runner. Who denies the divinity of Christ? Katherine Jefferts Schori and her gang of progressives. Who proclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings? As far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that abortion is wrong, that homosexuality is wrong, that divorce is unacceptable and a whole host of things that make the Episcopal Church look like kindergarten.
Try again, folks. [/i] – #11 Dave
You are right that the RCC is not THE whore of Babylon. The RCC is a PART of that system as well as other churches, like TEC, that have gone apostate. A lot of cults believe that homosexuality and abortion are wrong, however they are still cults.
As we see the political unification of the EU, which is the revived Roman Empire of Daniel 2 and 7, it is going to go global. Incidentally, the Roman Empire had two components, the political and spiritual. The pontifex maximus was the religious leader of the Roman Empire. Guess what church leader assumed the title of Pontifex Maximus in the 6th century and his successors continue to carry that title?!
We already have political leaders working towards the formation of a North American, South American, Asian and African unions. The world through the idea of globalism is working towards unification, just as the Scriptures have foretold. Similarly, in conjunction with political consolidation, there will be religious consolidation. But, to fully achieve this, I think there will be supernatural intervention from satanic forces.
What is ironic about John Hagee is that the very system he railed against is the very system he is a part of because of his denial of Jesus as the Messiah!
-Vincent