I took particular note of Mr Davies’ comment that Dawani would “prefer that all Anglicans came together [at] the Lambeth Conference to discuss their concerns there together.” This would be commendable were it not for the fact that this Lambeth Conference is not structured so that problems can be addressed and dealt with. Rather, it is one designed to promote collegiality among the attendees, and it will neither address the problems facing the Communion nor make any real attempt to alleviate the crisis in which we now find ourselves.
How many jabs can you count in the first 5 paragraphs of this article?
Consider these:
–1- “Controversial summit regarded by some critics as a rival to the 2008 Lambeth Conference”
Borderline for a lead sentence because it hints at characterizing the conference organizers’ motives.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
–2- “1,000 participants, including former Episcopal priests, some of whom are currently engaged in litigation concerning Episcopal Church property”
Yes, and “some of whom” have probably done all sorts of things.
This sentence is my favorite. Not clear why a few participants connection to U.S. church-property litigation merits mention in an article about an international conference in Jerusalem.
Will future ENS articles helpfully identify KJS as someone “currently engaged in litigation concerning Episcopal Church property.”
Note also the in-your-face assumption that all the property in question belongs to ECUSA.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
–3- “A closed-door pre-conference consultation”
Hugger-mugger!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
–4- “Denied entry for lacking the necessary diplomatic paperwork”
As though Abp. Akinola had simply been neglectful. No acknowledgement of the possibility that Jordanian authorities were doling out some politicized payback under the guise of “paperwork.”
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
–5-
— “Dawani previously called on organizers to move the conference, but his requests have not been honored”
— “The Most Rev. Mouneer Hanna Anis…his advice to the organizers [has] been ignored”
Not a big deal, but note this: After devotes 100 words to setting the scene. Then it devotes 100 words to how organizers have dissed local prelates.
[blockquote]Meanwhile, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams told a Diocese of Hereford conference June 18 that differences over sexuality could be resolved and denied a rift in the church, according to the Hereford Times newspaper.[/blockquote]
I certainly hope this was a white lie on ++Rowan’s part. If not, he’s living in an alternate reality.
[blockquote]Williams said he hopes the Lambeth Conference “will be a real trust-building event…The challenge is whether we manage those issues in such a way that they don’t just split us apart and isolate us from one another.”[/blockquote]
Bishops representing a good chunk of your flock, ++Rowan, are not attending because of their justified distrust of you. Publicized agendas of Lambeth make it clear your intent is precisely to “isolate one from another” to make sure nothing is resolved.
I don’t blame them one bit for not trusting you as far as they can throw Lambeth Palace.
+Robert O’Neill of Colorado is at GAFCON as a spy for Schori & Company, but he is not being permitted to participate. He’s there as an “observer.” But you can be sure that if he gets a chance, he’ll try.
The ABC puts himself in a grayer light with every declaration. He is such a diminished thing now, a shadow, a mere man, if I can put it that way. It is as if we can see his authority and integrity drain away as we watch. LM
Secondly it is and has been clear to me for a long time that the ABC is delusional. He is also totally inept and out of his league. What is the Biblical reference about those who are neither hot nor cold? Honestly I have more respect for the Susan Russells and Fr. Jakes of the world than Rowan Williams.
They are heretics. But they are unequivocal and crystal clear about where they stand.
Sorry John ICXC NIKA, it seemed appropriate at the time. I guess the analogy is too real to me who lived through those WWII days. You are correct, though, in regard to the ENS! You are a better Christian than I am, obviously. I am just a lot older and remember the similarities.
Correction #13: Russell and Jakes aren’t heretics they are apostates and, yes, there is a difference. A heretic doesn’t deny the faith but simply gets it wrong. An apostate denies the faith and its moral teachings altogether. Calling this ilk heretics is far too complimentary. They have denied the faith. They are apostates.
Re 15
Wamark,
I think that argument could be made about J.S. Spong. I am not convinced that it is true with respect to Jake and Susanne Russell. They have certainly abandoned important elements of Christian Orthodoxy. But they have not attacked Christianity directly as Spong has.
I don’t think the ABC is delusional, inept, out of his league or a heretic. He has taken a particular line in order to keep the Communion together going after the lost sheep. It remains to be seen whether in doing so he has lost the majority of the flock.
There are a lot of unanswered questions about what he has been up to.
I suspect that Abp Williams is operating under the assumption so common among liberals — that if we simply talk long enough and openly enough, we will discover that we all really believe the same thing, and that we will find a way to deal with our differences. That there could be completely opposite ways of looking at things that are logically incompatible with one another does not seem to enter the minds of liberals; they simply think that if you play around with words long enough, you can find a mutually satisfactory way of going on together.
Are the Elves getting some well-deserved sleep? #5. #7, #10. #11 and #15 seem to be well below any acceptable standard of debate. I’m sure we can do better!
“The Most Rev. Mouneer Hanna Anis….also has raised concerns about the event and acknowledged that his advice to the organizers……had been ignored”
OK this man is no “reasserter” Why were his pleas ignored? Are some primates more equal than others? I think this demonstrates that GAFCON is only partially representative of the “orthodox”. Soon we will see nasty things said about these “turncoats” (the non-GAFCON) from the “true Anglican” folk.
Lets face it, GAFCON is a Nigerian and Ugandan event with a few outsiders present.
#20 & #23: While GAFCON is in Israel, we must make sure that they don’t mention the Holocaust either. When I was an undergraduate student, I took a Speech course about mass political movements. Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl were lumped together with Gandhi and Billy Graham. (My Professor was not sympathetic with Christianity or other religions.) When one deals with rhetoric (now days called [i] spin [/i] ), obvious comparisons come to mind. But wait until the words of rhetoric like [i] bigot [/i] and [i] homophobe [/i] carry as much negative connotation as [i] money changer [/i], etc. In that case we may want to reexamine the moratorium you suggest.
I took particular note of Mr Davies’ comment that Dawani would “prefer that all Anglicans came together [at] the Lambeth Conference to discuss their concerns there together.” This would be commendable were it not for the fact that this Lambeth Conference is not structured so that problems can be addressed and dealt with. Rather, it is one designed to promote collegiality among the attendees, and it will neither address the problems facing the Communion nor make any real attempt to alleviate the crisis in which we now find ourselves.
Yup, it’s simply another opportunity for ‘dialogue’ and ‘conversation’, carefull designed to keep anything of importance from occurring.
The report points out that Rowan Williams simply can’t accept that Anglican schism has happened on his watch. Almost makes one feel pity for the man.
How many jabs can you count in the first 5 paragraphs of this article?
Consider these:
–1- “Controversial summit regarded by some critics as a rival to the 2008 Lambeth Conference”
Borderline for a lead sentence because it hints at characterizing the conference organizers’ motives.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
–2- “1,000 participants, including former Episcopal priests, some of whom are currently engaged in litigation concerning Episcopal Church property”
Yes, and “some of whom” have probably done all sorts of things.
This sentence is my favorite. Not clear why a few participants connection to U.S. church-property litigation merits mention in an article about an international conference in Jerusalem.
Will future ENS articles helpfully identify KJS as someone “currently engaged in litigation concerning Episcopal Church property.”
Note also the in-your-face assumption that all the property in question belongs to ECUSA.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
–3- “A closed-door pre-conference consultation”
Hugger-mugger!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
–4- “Denied entry for lacking the necessary diplomatic paperwork”
As though Abp. Akinola had simply been neglectful. No acknowledgement of the possibility that Jordanian authorities were doling out some politicized payback under the guise of “paperwork.”
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
–5-
— “Dawani previously called on organizers to move the conference, but his requests have not been honored”
— “The Most Rev. Mouneer Hanna Anis…his advice to the organizers [has] been ignored”
Not a big deal, but note this: After devotes 100 words to setting the scene. Then it devotes 100 words to how organizers have dissed local prelates.
I wasn’t aware Mrs. Schori had any authority to invite any of her minions to GAFCON. I guess she is the Popess of the world.
[blockquote]Meanwhile, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams told a Diocese of Hereford conference June 18 that differences over sexuality could be resolved and denied a rift in the church, according to the Hereford Times newspaper.[/blockquote]
I certainly hope this was a white lie on ++Rowan’s part. If not, he’s living in an alternate reality.
[blockquote]Williams said he hopes the Lambeth Conference “will be a real trust-building event…The challenge is whether we manage those issues in such a way that they don’t just split us apart and isolate us from one another.”[/blockquote]
Bishops representing a good chunk of your flock, ++Rowan, are not attending because of their justified distrust of you. Publicized agendas of Lambeth make it clear your intent is precisely to “isolate one from another” to make sure nothing is resolved.
I don’t blame them one bit for not trusting you as far as they can throw Lambeth Palace.
[i] Deleted by elf. See # 24 [/i]
How they hate the fact that there are Christian Anglicans that refuse to be controlled by 815!
+Robert O’Neill of Colorado is at GAFCON as a spy for Schori & Company, but he is not being permitted to participate. He’s there as an “observer.” But you can be sure that if he gets a chance, he’ll try.
[i] Deleted by elf. See #24. [/i]
[i] Deleted by elf. See #24.[/i]
The ABC puts himself in a grayer light with every declaration. He is such a diminished thing now, a shadow, a mere man, if I can put it that way. It is as if we can see his authority and integrity drain away as we watch. LM
Secondly it is and has been clear to me for a long time that the ABC is delusional. He is also totally inept and out of his league. What is the Biblical reference about those who are neither hot nor cold? Honestly I have more respect for the Susan Russells and Fr. Jakes of the world than Rowan Williams.
They are heretics. But they are unequivocal and crystal clear about where they stand.
ICXC NIKA
John
[i] Slightly edited by elf. [/i]
Sorry John ICXC NIKA, it seemed appropriate at the time. I guess the analogy is too real to me who lived through those WWII days. You are correct, though, in regard to the ENS! You are a better Christian than I am, obviously. I am just a lot older and remember the similarities.
Correction #13: Russell and Jakes aren’t heretics they are apostates and, yes, there is a difference. A heretic doesn’t deny the faith but simply gets it wrong. An apostate denies the faith and its moral teachings altogether. Calling this ilk heretics is far too complimentary. They have denied the faith. They are apostates.
Re 15
Wamark,
I think that argument could be made about J.S. Spong. I am not convinced that it is true with respect to Jake and Susanne Russell. They have certainly abandoned important elements of Christian Orthodoxy. But they have not attacked Christianity directly as Spong has.
ICXC NIKA
John
I don’t think the ABC is delusional, inept, out of his league or a heretic. He has taken a particular line in order to keep the Communion together going after the lost sheep. It remains to be seen whether in doing so he has lost the majority of the flock.
There are a lot of unanswered questions about what he has been up to.
I suspect that Abp Williams is operating under the assumption so common among liberals — that if we simply talk long enough and openly enough, we will discover that we all really believe the same thing, and that we will find a way to deal with our differences. That there could be completely opposite ways of looking at things that are logically incompatible with one another does not seem to enter the minds of liberals; they simply think that if you play around with words long enough, you can find a mutually satisfactory way of going on together.
Or perhaps it is this:
http://www.spurgeon.org/images/pyromaniac/TeamPyro/e-s_061.jpg
Are the Elves getting some well-deserved sleep? #5. #7, #10. #11 and #15 seem to be well below any acceptable standard of debate. I’m sure we can do better!
“The Most Rev. Mouneer Hanna Anis….also has raised concerns about the event and acknowledged that his advice to the organizers……had been ignored”
OK this man is no “reasserter” Why were his pleas ignored? Are some primates more equal than others? I think this demonstrates that GAFCON is only partially representative of the “orthodox”. Soon we will see nasty things said about these “turncoats” (the non-GAFCON) from the “true Anglican” folk.
Lets face it, GAFCON is a Nigerian and Ugandan event with a few outsiders present.
#20 Are you offering? Badman would be a strange name for an Elf but what do I know.
[i] Deleted by elf. See #24. [/i]
[i] Any reference to Nazis and Nazism will be deleted. [/i]
#20 & #23: While GAFCON is in Israel, we must make sure that they don’t mention the Holocaust either. When I was an undergraduate student, I took a Speech course about mass political movements. Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl were lumped together with Gandhi and Billy Graham. (My Professor was not sympathetic with Christianity or other religions.) When one deals with rhetoric (now days called [i] spin [/i] ), obvious comparisons come to mind. But wait until the words of rhetoric like [i] bigot [/i] and [i] homophobe [/i] carry as much negative connotation as [i] money changer [/i], etc. In that case we may want to reexamine the moratorium you suggest.
Elves, you were quite right in deleting those posts. They were inappropriate. My apologies.