Some clergy think churches should divorce themselves from the wedding business.
The controversy over same-sex marriage ”“ along with a growing sense that many couples who marry in churches never return ”“ has prompted faith leaders to say it’s time to reconsider how California couples tie the knot.
After the California Supreme Court ruled gay marriage legal, the bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of California began encouraging all couples to marry outside the church.
“I urge you to encourage all couples, regardless of orientation, to follow the pattern of first being married in a secular service, and then being blessed in the Episcopal Church,” Bishop Marc Handley Andrus wrote his clergy June 9.
This model is used by many European countries, according to John Witte, director of the Center for the Study of Law and Religion at Emory University. He said that approach has been practiced in France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavia and other countries for many years.
“In those countries, the civil ceremony is sufficient,” he said.
When priests are spiritually blind and impotent, they really cannot see the merit or sacredness of a ceremony with vows before God. They are actually unqualified to understand, counsel, prepare, guide and facilitate or witness to a true and holy marriage.
Marriage has been made a mockery, the vows mangled and altered and so soon broken that it has lost its meaning and value for so many people.
The libpansexual agendites and libprot Christians are particularly clueless that sex is not and should not be the center and altar of a relationship between any man and woman, or even a husband and wife or even be involved in a relationship between two people of the same sex. Relationships stay shallow, become twisted and torturous when sex is god. This society is so sexualized that it is unsafe and child sexual abuse occurs just walking children through the mall or turning on TV where even the ads are saturated with blatant sexual messages.
Finding a way to walk out life in a way that is holy and true in the jungle of darkness that exists in this world, especially in the developed West, is only possible with an orthodox Christian church with spiritually competent clergy.
A greater mind has written far better what I was clumsily trying to say above: http://merecomments.typepad.com/merecomments/2008/06/color-me-green.html
[blockquote] … a member of Integrity … “I heard about it last week,” he said. “To me, it’s (the church’s) way of getting around treating us equally. As soon as we can get married, they want us to get blessed? A lot of us would like to get married in church.” [/blockquote]
This illuminates the real issue of the same sex marriage agenda. People of traditional faiths view marriage as something more than just two people living together with a license to have sex. Counter to this is an attempt to force the religious establishment to bless a behavior that goes against their traditions and what they preach. If the clergy are forced to accept what is really a secular issue, then the rights of religious expression in this country is violated. It is as if sinners can force God to accept their unrepentant behavior using the worldly secular courts. It doesn’t work that way. It cheapens the sacrament for the rest of us.
Christ taught us to be accepting to all people but not of all behavior. Sometimes a married couple may just want to have a special romantic night out. Have you ever found yourself at a restaurant with a screaming baby at the next table? Do I accept babies? Of course. ‘ Had them myself. Did I want the parents of that baby to step outside to calm it? Yes. Does that make me intolerant?
I remember the hospital, where my first child was birthed, provided a candle light dinner for the parents. Sitting with my wife, I looked around and saw that all the other mothers present were teenage girls sitting with their mothers or grandmothers. Somehow, it took away from the atmosphere I was expecting to experience. I wished the best for those young mothers and their newborns, but I personally didn’t bless the circumstances that brought us together in the same dining area. No, I didn’t really feel in communion with all the unwed mothers. It took something away from ambience of the moment where my wife and I were celebrating the birth of our son. It seemed more to do with a lesson about the realities of our culture. That was not what I was looking for that night. Likewise, church wedding ceremonies are special to genuinely faithful Christians. Don’t cheapen it.
[i]”I urge you to encourage all couples, regardless of orientation, to follow the pattern of first being married in a secular service, and then being blessed in the Episcopal Church,”[/i]
I urge all to go to someone else. We have no authority. Everything is good but if Episcopal is what you want we have a blessing don’t worry. By the way…have you filled out your pledge card yet?
A civil ceremony is sufficient, but it is not marriage. Marriage is not and never has been civil. A civil ceremony will provide the couple (or three or four) with whatever benefits the civil law allows to civil partners. Marriage is a spiritual affair and cannot be effected by Caesar. The entry above merely seeks to make remove ssm from the reach of the Bible and its prohibitions. It is fundamentally dishonest, there can be no other description. Larry
“I wished the best for those young mothers and their newborns, but I personally didn’t bless the circumstances that brought us together in the same dining area. No, I didn’t really feel in communion with all the unwed mothers. It took something away from ambience of the moment where my wife and I were celebrating the birth of our son.”
Good thing you didn’t know Mary, the mother of Jesus. She was an unwed mom, and she would definitely have spoiled your puritanical day.
Yes number 6, you can take what you may out of my sentence, but I did try to modify it in the first phrase that you quoted in anticipation of your remark, or something similar. The point was, that around me were many births not conceived in love but in lust and irresponsibility. This points back to the discussion of a traditional Christian view of marriage, procreation and the celebration of same. The most likely outcome of the demographics in that room was the perpetuation of poverty down through multiple generations. Personally, I didn’t want to be contemplating that issue in what was supposed to be a special moment between me and my wife. Maybe later. Now making a comparison of the virgin birth of Jesus is off the mark. And I may say that His nominal father was present at the Nativity, and that he was (at a higher level) conceived in God’s Love.
Actually Mary wasn’t an unwed when she gave birth.
I’m seem to remember Joseph being there. They weren’t refugees either in case that was your next point.
[i] Please return to the topic. [/i]
-Elf Lady
As I understand some of the aspects of Jewish wedding law: Back in Jesus’ earthly time it was the custom for Jewish couples to live together for about a year (with supervision of course) with no sexual intercourse taking place. However if the two persons just couldn’t keep apart, then another law kicked in and the tribe considered marriage of the two a done deed.
Comments anyone???
I would submit that most marriages in churches are now fairly pagan – the enthronement of the princess.
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=1971
Betrothal in medieval England would allow for sex (after all, they would be living together). Betrothal was a very real agreement – not “shacking up.” However, if there were children, there would have to be marriage. Some churches celebrate the engagement in church, which is quite sensible!
“I heard about it last week,†he said. “To me, it’s (the church’s) way of getting around treating us equally. As soon as we can get married, they want us to get blessed? A lot of us would like to get married in church.â€
There is always the “agent of the state” argument. My own priest is openly gay, and makes that case very well.
In the opinion of this priest, the Church needs to stop making me function as an agent of the State when I hear vows. All faithful members of this parish who wish to marry should first go to the Justice of the Peace to obtain a license and “be married.†If, because the faith of Christ matters to them which one would hope it does, they would at some point after appearing before the JP show up at Church for the one thing the Church does best: A Blessing upon their marriage.
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