A couple of hours ago, the Church of England decisively severed itself from its Catholic roots. By voting to ordain women bishops without significant safeguards for traditionalists, it reasserted its identity as a Protestant Church. Whether it will be a liberal or conservative Protestant denomination remains to be seen. But any hope of unity with Rome and the Orthodox has gone forever.
I’m not sorry. From the moment the C of E voted to ordain women priests in 1992, it cut itself off from the Catholic mainstream. But unexpectedly generous safeguards allowed traditionalists to cordon themselves off from the rest of the Church, persuading themselves that they, rather than the main body, preserved its true Catholic identity.
Cardinal Walter Kaspar asked Anglicans to decide and the General Synod obliged.
Father Dean A. Einerson
Rhinelander, Wisconsin
The 39 Articles are distinctly Protestant, and these were published by the C of E long before 1992… Also, opposition to WO is not limited to Catholics; there is many a Protestant denomination that will not ordain women.
Whatever. Say absolutely ANYTHING to justify destroying the Church.
Since this came from the Telegraph, I’m not surprised.
All of us ought to be honest about this. GAFCON also demonstrated that even “orthodox” Anglicans are fundamentally Reformation Protestants – the theology papers which preceded the Conference and the statement from the Conference contained very little sense of a catholic understanding of church and the sacraments. What the General Synod and GAFCON have done is demonstrate that any claim to Anglican “catholicity” is at best fatally compromised. I thank both the C of E and GAFCON for clarifying matters. We will now have two Protestant denominations, one liberal and one “conservative”, with dress-up “bishops” but no claim to apostolicity, unity, or holiness other than wishful thinking.
I’m amazed how EVERYONE here seems to be bashing the Via Media. Are there any Anglicans left on this board, or is every single commenter a Roman or Orthodox plant?
#6, drats, foiled again! Oh well, back to the Opus Dei Papist Assassin Training Academy.
Seriously, though, I think the slew of polarized opinions lately is simply because of the severely polarizing effects of having to tackle the sticky points of the via media. A lot of people are having a harder and harder time holding things “in tension” when the hardcore reappraisers have used and abused “tension” and “via media” to the point that the terms no longer hold much meaning. I guess folks are tired of what they see as mushy theology and are coming off the fence, one side (catholic) or another (reformed/protestant).
I’m beginning to think:
Via Media = Protestant Theology with Roman Catholic liturgical trappings.
Jim Elliott <>< Anglo-Catholic, Charismatic, Evangelical, all rolled into one!
Via Media – an iterative process where revisionists stake out progressivly more far-left positions and demand the church meet them halfway each iteration.
Chris Molter, very funny!
libraryjim and Jeffersonian, the Via Media sees both Romans and Orthodox as part of the Ekklesia, along with Anglicans and other Christians. Paul teaches us that we are baptized into the Church, and, therefore, any Augustinian baptisms makes you part of the One Holy Catholic Church. The idea that any Christian who was not a heretic was not part of the Church is so foreign to the New Testament and early Apostolic Christianity it is itself anti-tradition and offensively legalistic.
How kind of the utterly insignificant “via media” (always somehow defined to match one’s own prejudices) to recognize the great churches of the east and west. Like the minnow recognizing the whale. Step outside of the fevered factions of Anglicanism, and it is astonishing how irrelevant it appears. Newman observed something similar, in rather more poetic form.
You dismissed my points entirely simply because it is was little ol’ me that uttered them. I think there was a logical argument that took that tack… or maybe it was a logical fallacy?
The great empire of Rome employed the same attitude 2000 years ago, and look where it got them. Regardless, austin, you’ll always be my brother in Christ, regardless of whether you return the favor. Sincerely.
but the via media died yesterday, the church voted to be wholly protestant and denounce any hint of catholic witness..and yes- for the record- I mourn that. the irony is that when the C of E finally chose to be truly protestant- it didn’t even do that very well. For this brand is neither biblical or in keeping with the faith of the fathers
Re 10
Justynmartyr,
You wrote in part…
[blockquote] The idea that any Christian who was not a heretic was not part of the Church is so foreign to the New Testament and early Apostolic Christianity it is itself anti-tradition and offensively legalistic.[/blockquote]
That comment is so breathtaking in its demonstrable error that I am not even sure where to begin. Heresy was always seen as separation from The Church. Have you read Cyprian? Or for that matter any of the Fathers? Have you read the Apostolic Canons?
“Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God.” II Corinthians 6.14-16.
“Let any Bishop, or Presbyter, or Deacon that merely joins in prayer with heretics be suspended, but if he has permitted them to perform any service as clergymen, let him be deposed.” Apostolic Canon 45.
“That one must not join in prayer with heretics or schismatics.” Canon 33 of the Council of Laodicea (confirmed by Constantinople II)
St. John Chrysostom writes: “Let no-one communicate who is not of the disciples. Let no Judas receive, lest he suffer the fate of Judas I would give up my life rather than impart of the Lord’s Blood to the unworthy; and I will shed my own blood rather than give such awful Blood contrary to what is right.” Homilies on Matthew, 83.6.
St. John the Almsgiver said: “We shall not escape sharing in that punishment which, in the world to come, awaits heretics, if we defile Orthodoxy and the holy Faith by adulterous communion with heretics.” The Life of St. John the Almsgiver.
St. John of Damascus writes: “With all our strength let us beware lest we receive Communion from or give it to heretics. ‘Give not what is holy to the dogs,’ says the Lord. ‘Neither cast ye your pearls before swine’, lest we become partakers in their dishonour and condemnation.” Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, IV, 13.
St. Maximus the Confessor said: “Even if the whole universe holds communion with the [heretical] patriarch, I will not communicate with him. For I know from the writings of the holy Apostle Paul: the Holy Spirit declares that even the angels would be anathema if they should begin to preach another Gospel, introducing some new teaching.” The Life of St. Maximus the Confessor.
“Chrysostomos loudly declares not only heretics, but also those who have communion with them, to be enemies of God.” St. Theodore the Studite, Epistle of Abbot Theophilus.
“Guard yourselves from soul-destroying heresy, communion with which is alienation from Christ.” St. Theodore the Studite.
ICXC NIKA
[url=http://ad-orientem.blogspot.com/]John[/url]
“Some have suffered final shipwreck with regard to the faith. Others, though they have not drowned in their thoughts, are nevertheless perishing through communion with heresy.” St. Theodore the Studite.
“All the teachers of the Church, and all the Councils, and all the Divine Scriptures advise us to flee from the heterodox and separate from their communion.” St. Mark of Ephesus.
No. 6, justinmartyr, I consider myself to be a defender of the Via Media, and I am still an Anglican. I think the problem is that Via Media has been redefined out of its original definition, which was *not* some “middle way” between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, but rather an adherence to the Faith of the Undivided Church. You see this in the writings of Bishop Ken, who confessed himself a member of the “Undivided Church”; in Archbishop Fisher (I believe), who said we Anglicans have no faith of our own, but only the Faith of the first millennium Church, etc. I defend *that* Via Media. And that Via Media is staunchly opposed to about 99% of the direction of Anglicanism over the past 40 years.
Boy, Ad Orientem, you can twist scripture with the best of them:
iThat comment is so breathtaking in its demonstrable error that I am not even sure where to begin. Heresy was always seen as separation from The Church.
So all Romans and Anglicans are heretics? Again, non-scriptural in the extreme.
“Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers.”
Oops, I guess you misread that as “Be not unequally yoked with Romans, or Anglicans.
“That one must not join in prayer with heretics or schismatics.†Canon 33 of the Council of Laodicea (confirmed by Constantinople II)
Now we are talking of later church tradition in contradiction to early church practise. Last I knew your patriarchs prayed at the alters with the Pope, remember the Pope, that evil, Roman schismatic? I can’t IMAGINE ANY Christian not being willing to pray with his brother or sister. And you call this biblical!
You have taken my breath away. Tell me you were kidding!