The Vatican has ordered an outspoken Bloc Québécois MP to quit his seat in the House of Commons and return to his job as a Roman Catholic priest.
Rev. Raymond Gravel said the decision was due to a backlash in English Canada over his “misinterpreted” comments on abortion, but that he had no choice but to follow his original calling.
“My first mission in life is to be a priest, not to be in politics,” he said in an interview.
Father Gravel, 55, is a former prostitute who became a priest in his mid-20s. He worked on behalf of the poor and the elderly after being elected to the House of Commons in a 2006 by-election in the Quebec riding of Repentigny.
This guy was a male whore but they let him in the priesthood? What?
And how is this possible? LM
Um, sorry to break it to you, Larry, but even the worst of sinners can repent of their sin. Ever hear of [url=http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09763a.htm]St. Mary of Egypt[/url]?
Or to follow on Charles’ response, ever heard of St. Paul?
I’m not concerned about what he did before he was a priest, but what he has done since becoming one, which is to oppose the teachings of the Church that ordained him.
There is no problem ordaining him despite his past life as a prostitute. We are a Church of redemption and transformation (of ourselves no less than of others). On the other hand, if his past life had found him as a PROTESTANT…
(I think that there is an old joke here.)
Back in the 70s, I think that Pope Paul told Rep. Bob Drinan of Mass. that he had to give up his seat in Congress because holding political office was inconsistent with a priestly calling. I don’t think Fr. Drinan advocated anything contrary to Church teaching…the Vatican just found an inherent conflict between the two callings.
I am glad someone pointed out St. Mary of Egypt. The Church is not here to punish or pass judgment but rather to save souls. God grace works in strange ways and sometimes through rather surprising persons. A brief look at the biographies of some of our saints would show that many lead highly disreputable and sometimes positively infamous lives before their conversion.
Fr Seraphim Rose of blessed memory went through a period of Bohemian living during his rather dissipated youth in San Francisco. After converting to Orthodoxy he retired from the world and became a monk. Eventually he founded St. Herman’s, an extremely ascetic (no electricity or running water) monastery in the mountains of N. California near Platina. His reputation for personal sanctity spread throughout the world. Today he is widely venerated as a saint, though he has yet to be formally canonized by the Orthodox Church.
Not long before his death a visitor asked him if he had any thoughts about his hedonist life as a young man. Fr. Seraphim replied “I was in Hell.”
ICXC NIKA
[url=http://ad-orientem.blogspot.com/]John[/url]
On a side note, I did not intend my above post as a defense of this priest’s activities since his ordination. Rather it was an observation that once one repents we are called to forget the past. Unfortunately in this case the priest appears to be a heretic. In this situation I think the Roman Church made the wrong decision. The scandal he is causing through his open heresy spoken while wearing clerical attire is far more grievous than his conduct as a liberal MP. He should have been excommunicated and deposed.
ICXC NIKA
[url=http://ad-orientem.blogspot.com/]John[/url]
“I don’t think Fr. Drinan advocated anything contrary to Church teaching…”
On the contrary, he was totally and explicitly “pro-choice” in his voting in Congress, voting against every attempt to restrict abortion or to restrict gov’t funding of it. He (as a priest and a Jesuit) was the great bellwether of the scabbed flock of “I’m against abortion, but” Catholic politicians, and he was a great personal friend of Nancy Pelosi.
In addition to St. Mary of Egypt, let’s not forget the great St. Augustine of Hippo, who led a rather dissolute life prior to his conversion.
#1 and 2: Sure, but did you see anything about “repent” here? About penance in order to reach forgiveness? I didn’t. And his life in parliament strongly suggests that he hasn’t repented of anything. Have you lost entirely your healthy scepticism? Recall the governor of NJ, now in seminary? Do you think HE repented. Give me a break.
Do you want him as your priest? Yes yes, I hear forgiveness and and repentence all over the place; it is the pious thing to say – how nicely it rolls off the tongue – but a greater truth is that leopards rarely change their spots, but they can and often do dye them to pretend they’re gone. Tell me, do YOU really want a male whore as your priest? As to Paul: He didn’t repent in the usual way, he was blasted the Force; this didn’t leave him a whole lot of choice. And no, I never heard of St. Mary of Egypt. Who’s she? I don’t recall meeting her in scripture. Larry
#11 – I’m not for sure, but I don’t believe that Fr. Gravel is a male whore any longer. I haven’t heard him formally repent of that sin, but it appears that he has.
Of course I don’t want a male whore as my priest! I don’t know anyone who does. Are you claiming that Fr. Gravel is still a male whore?
St. Mary of Egypt – no one claimed that you could “meet her” in Scripture. I mentioned her because she’s an example of someone who left her former life of prostitution to follow Christ.
“but a greater truth is that leopards rarely change their spots”
If this is true, then there’s no hope for me. The sin that I was born into by virtue of my humanity is further away from the spotless sinlessness of the redeemed sinner than any man can imagine.
I always thought that if God was sort of liberal in throwing around forgiveness and grace, that was to my advantage, so I’m not going to criticize the practice.
I seem to remember several whores mentioned in the gospel accounts. Whores, adultresses, tax collectors, drunks, all constantly in the company of Christ.
It seems as if whores are more responsive to the teachings and presence of the Messiah than all the squabbling Saducees and Pharisees.
Rev. Gravel seems like an excellent example of a person who judges religious doctrine according to his political doctrine. At least it’s clear where his true faith resides.
#15- “At least it’s clear where his true faith resides.” Agreed.
“My first mission in life is to be a priest, not to be in politics,” he said in an interview.
#16, from the article: [blockquote]As a priest, Father Gravel was a critic of the church’s position on same-sex marriage and abortion rights, but he also pointed out that the Church and the Bloc were on the same page when it comes to social programs and poverty.[/blockquote] So, if his “first mission in life is to be a priest, not to be in politics,” it’s apparently something like a priest “of politics, but not in politics.”
So who is St Mary of Egypt? Does anyone know?
#17 But he WAS in politics and then some.
Is he still a prostitute? Well, tell you what, examine the Roman church’s past priests and tell me whether he might still be a practicing homosexual. Would you like to take a bit of a sporting flutter on this? And consider his political stances as we are told them above. And let me remind you again of New Jersey’s most excellent governor and where he is now and what he is doing. Do you see a similarity?
#14 This is often quoted as suggesting, by implication, that the whores and drunkards were more worthy of salvation than the S’s and P’s. But Christ went where the sinners were. What you don’t know – and pretend that you do – is how successful Christ was.
And none of this has any bearing on the case at hand. Show me somewhere that the priest at stake has undergone some kind of conversion, seen himself as a terrible sinner and has repented and done penance for his sins. Then I’ll believe. But that he is now a priest tells me nothing at all about any alteration in his behavior. The Roman seminaries were (and maybe still are) hotbeds of homosexuals, so much so that heterosexuals complained that they were unable to pursue their novitiate. Could he have become a priest and changed nothing? You know he could. And I see nothing to indicate he has changed, and his political stands suggest that my view has some substance to it. Larry
St. Mary of Egypt
See how easy that was! :cheese:
Thanks, Words. I had never heard of her. But aided by a lion? Please.
Still, she makes the point: She felt that she had been a dreadful sinner, begged for forgiveness and mercy and then paid a substantial penance. So it SHOULD be. Now, take the priest above. Do you see any such signs of anything except he is using the priesthood to advance his own agenda? And I could say the same of that repellent creature who was once gov. of NJ. See and guilt or penance there?
Larry
Larry,
You asked the question about repentance in #11. Charles answered you in #12. Why the silence? After all, he gave you a break.
Of course, your post in #11 is simply an attempt to divert away from our posts in 2 & 3 because the truth is you have no good Christian response to those questions we posed.