Well, it was budget cuts in Seattle that lost St. Mark’s Cathedral the great and useful input of Ann Redding. This diocese may lose some great theological minds of it’s own in the economic problems. Might find some lurking Muslo-Aglicans.
This isn’t just hard times in a less-than-prosperous part of the United States. This is the future many ECUSA dioceses will face. Brave mission-statement talk about being “the passionate presence of Christ” make up for a hobbled gospel coopted by secular culture.
Could not pull up the diocesan chart but I had looked at it yesterday. Kirk Hadaway, the TEO statistician, talked about how giving goes up when the numbers go down…to a point (see [url=http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/6520 ]Why Pledges Increase as Membership and Attendance figures Decrease[/url]). Then fatigue of the givers who had been asked to give more and more sets in. Ominously, the diocese of CNY had just turned the corner in the plate and pledge tallies and it started to fall. They should be worried.
Diocese has lost about one-third of its members and its 2007 Plate & Pledge is about the same as for 2000. But it is difficult for me to take a bishop serious who calls himself Skip. Reminds me of a playmate I had in grade school. Statmann
It’s called voting with one’s wallet (or purse). Quite a painful concept for TEC to come to grips with as it makes them (or at least should make them) address that whole Matt 6:24 / Luke 16:13 ‘mammon’ thing.
You are quite right (as usual). This diocese may not have hit bottom yet by any means. The fatigue in giving factor that you mention as membership and attendance decreases is a very real and powerful force in church life, at both the congregational and the diocesan level. Yes, they should be worried.
Not least, clergy and lay leaders in Central NY should be worried because the bishop completely refuses to take any responsibility for what has happened. It’s as if this drastic drop in income is no one’s fault. +Skip Adams presents the problem as if it’s just due to external factors out of the diocese’s control (economic hard times etc.). He implies that they’ll just tighten their belts and carry on as before, just with less staff. But not to worry. All is well.
Right. Sure it is.
Stuck in that kind of denial, things are sure to get worse. Yes, they should be worried, especially that the bishop is NOT worried.
Bear in mind the fact that the Diocese of Central New York has never been a well-endowed diocese, and many of their parishes and missions are ‘way out in the hinterlands and very small towns and villages. Some clergy serve as many as three congregations…..some of which are “summertime only” churches.
I served there some twenty years ago, in one of the few renewal parishes in the diocese. It is a beautiful area with many nice people, but even in the mid-80’s there were quite a few theological flakes floating about. The parish in which I had served was gradually and quietly drawn back into “mainstream” Episcopalianism through careful work on the part of the deployment officer of the diocese. Many of the people who had come to know the Lord during the renewal time left the parish. We are still friends with some – sad tales about the parish, but much grace and service in their own lives. The parish is now “safe” for the new thing – and shrinking.
I tried to look up several diocese at TEc’s Growth & Development, the site is there but the data is not, removed for fear the pew sheep might learn something I suspect.
If its anything like my church, pledges are certainly down.
Well, it was budget cuts in Seattle that lost St. Mark’s Cathedral the great and useful input of Ann Redding. This diocese may lose some great theological minds of it’s own in the economic problems. Might find some lurking Muslo-Aglicans.
This isn’t just hard times in a less-than-prosperous part of the United States. This is the future many ECUSA dioceses will face. Brave mission-statement talk about being “the passionate presence of Christ” make up for a hobbled gospel coopted by secular culture.
One easy solution is to SETTLE THE LAWSUITS AGAINST FELLOW CHRISTIANS.
This would save them enough money, and even bring in more money to retain some of their staff.
But of course, TEC has become so addicted to lawsuits at all costs this will never happen…
Could not pull up the diocesan chart but I had looked at it yesterday. Kirk Hadaway, the TEO statistician, talked about how giving goes up when the numbers go down…to a point (see [url=http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/6520 ]Why Pledges Increase as Membership and Attendance figures Decrease[/url]). Then fatigue of the givers who had been asked to give more and more sets in. Ominously, the diocese of CNY had just turned the corner in the plate and pledge tallies and it started to fall. They should be worried.
It seems to me like it’s important for us to be concerned for—perhaps even to pray for— those who are now looking for jobs in a difficult market.
Diocese has lost about one-third of its members and its 2007 Plate & Pledge is about the same as for 2000. But it is difficult for me to take a bishop serious who calls himself Skip. Reminds me of a playmate I had in grade school. Statmann
It’s called voting with one’s wallet (or purse). Quite a painful concept for TEC to come to grips with as it makes them (or at least should make them) address that whole Matt 6:24 / Luke 16:13 ‘mammon’ thing.
“All is well.”
robroy (#5),
You are quite right (as usual). This diocese may not have hit bottom yet by any means. The fatigue in giving factor that you mention as membership and attendance decreases is a very real and powerful force in church life, at both the congregational and the diocesan level. Yes, they should be worried.
Not least, clergy and lay leaders in Central NY should be worried because the bishop completely refuses to take any responsibility for what has happened. It’s as if this drastic drop in income is no one’s fault. +Skip Adams presents the problem as if it’s just due to external factors out of the diocese’s control (economic hard times etc.). He implies that they’ll just tighten their belts and carry on as before, just with less staff. But not to worry. All is well.
Right. Sure it is.
Stuck in that kind of denial, things are sure to get worse. Yes, they should be worried, especially that the bishop is NOT worried.
David Handy+
Bear in mind the fact that the Diocese of Central New York has never been a well-endowed diocese, and many of their parishes and missions are ‘way out in the hinterlands and very small towns and villages. Some clergy serve as many as three congregations…..some of which are “summertime only” churches.
I was born and raised in that diocese, and left 45 years ago.
I served there some twenty years ago, in one of the few renewal parishes in the diocese. It is a beautiful area with many nice people, but even in the mid-80’s there were quite a few theological flakes floating about. The parish in which I had served was gradually and quietly drawn back into “mainstream” Episcopalianism through careful work on the part of the deployment officer of the diocese. Many of the people who had come to know the Lord during the renewal time left the parish. We are still friends with some – sad tales about the parish, but much grace and service in their own lives. The parish is now “safe” for the new thing – and shrinking.
I tried to look up several diocese at TEc’s Growth & Development, the site is there but the data is not, removed for fear the pew sheep might learn something I suspect.