(ENS) Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams and deposed Diocese of Pittsburgh Bishop Bob Duncan met privately in London last week.
The Lambeth Palace press office confirmed that the meeting took place on October 15, but would not disclose details of the conversation between Williams and Duncan, saying it was “one of many private meetings” the archbishop hosts at his London residence.
oh, to have been a fly on that wall… :o]
By way of contrast as I understand it Bishop Robinson was NOT received at Lambeth Palace – is there a signal being sent?
[blockquote]. Pageantmaster wrote:
By way of contrast as I understand it Bishop Robinson was NOT received at Lambeth Palace – is there a signal being sent? [/blockquote]
I would say a very clear one. But the people it was meant for won’t get it.
Just out of curiosity, why is +Duncan referred to primarily as the deposed Bishop of Pittsburgh rather than in his current, and uncontested capacity, as a Bishop of the Southern Cone, serving as Bishop Commissary to the Diocese of Pittsburgh?
I do not understand the above comments. Lambeth Palace is the London resident of the A of C, so if he received Duncan at his London residence, he received him at Lambeth.
[i]Terry, I think you need to reread the comments above. No one is saying that +Duncan was not received at Lambeth. He was. The comment above is making the point that Gene Robinson was not received at Lambeth, wondering if that is significant. Does that help?[/i]
#4–it says “deposed” because it is from Episcopal News Service.
This is very good news. Perhaps TEC will be in for some much needed and deserved “shock and awe” from Canterbury. Sounds like something is in the works that just might pull the rug out from under an all too smug TEC. Do it already!
Yes, I support Bishop Robinson, GLBT inclusion and WO but not the nasty litigation and shabby treatment of reasserters and the milktoast theology of so many reappraisers. At this rate we’ll be in full communion with the Unitarian Universalists in 10 years.
“At this rate we’ll be in full communion with the Unitarian Universalists in 10 years.”
10? How about tomorrow?
More good news – the REC has approved the Jerusalem Declaration…leaders of the APA were present at the meeting.
Let me call attention to two features of this report that are worth pondering. First, there is the significant remark by +Bob Duncan the Lion-Hearted about the diminishing role of Canterbury in the AC, a role that he says will be much more limited in this century than it has been up until now. I think he’s quite correct, as the balance of power in Anglicanism inexorably shifts from the North Atlantic to the Global South and from the Primate of All England to the FCA/GAFCON Primates. And that inevitable and necessary process is being accelerated by how the ABoC is mishandling this crisis through his inaction, and his obstruction of the Primates Meeting (voiding the agreed deadline from the Tanzania meeting in early 2007) and his turning the Lambeth Conference into an expensive waste of time, a financially and pastorally irresponsible non-event.
I wish ++Rowan Williams was consciously and intentionally allowing his role as “first among equals” to be eclipsed, but I doubt it. I would love it if he was deliberately cultivating the kind of humility shown by John the Baptist according to the Gospel of John: “He must increase; I must decrease.” It would sure be nice if he really felt that way about say ++Akinola, or ++Orombi. He hasn’t said anything that would actually make us think so, but regardless of his intentions, the end result will be the same. Cantaur is becoming ever more irrelevant to how this prolonged crisis plays out.
Second, you have to wonder why it was ENS that broke this news story, not the ACN or Common Cause or Lambeth Palace itself. WHY would TEC want this meeting to become public knowledge? What does TEC stand to gain from it?? We can all speculate about that a long time, but it sure makes me wonder.
David Handy+
What strikes me most was how the article was actually relatively good news writing. Even the repetition of the sobriquet “deposed” was accurate given the circumstances.
“The Lambeth Palace press office . . . would not disclose details of the conversation between Williams and Duncan” —ENS
But we can be confident that Kenneth Kearon told all to 815.
Irenaeus, that is assuming Kearon was privy to the meeting. I am assuming this article is an attempt to troll for information from orthodox bloggers. I suspect they don’t know for sure what was discussed and they are profoundly annoyed by that fact.
My advice is to keep Bishop Bob and Archbishop Rowan deeply in our prayers. The next few months will be critical for our church.
This is interesting, in that as I see it the most likely short-term scenario for an explicit, formal schism in the Anglican Communion is something like the following:
1) CCP organizes as a province in North America, elects +Duncan as its Primate, and petitions the Communion for recognition.
2) The GAFCON Primates, and perhaps some others, immediately recognize the new province. The other Primates do not.
3) The promised February Primates’ Meeting comes up. +++Rowan invites the Primates, including ++KJS as a matter of course… but not ++Duncan, on the grounds that the new province has not been recognized by the Instruments.
4) The GAFCON Primates say they will boycott unless ++Duncan is invited. Or, alternatively, they do come but put the recognition of the new province to a vote, and it doesn’t pass.
5) At this point, the Communion is pretty much forced to split based on which North American province each of the other provinces recognize themselves as being in communion with (and therefore which of the competing Primates’ Meetings they should attend.) GAFCON provinces (obviously) and some others (likely) on one side, England (necessarily, in this scenario) and several others on the other side.
In fact, it would not surprise me at all if the GAFCON Primates delayed recognition of the new province until after the February Primates’ Meeting, just to avoid forcing the issue in exactly this way. Which only puts it off until the following Primates’ Meeting, whenever that is, but lots of things could happen in that time.
Or I could be wrong about point (3) and ++Duncan would be invited. I see it as unlikely given the way +++Rowan has talked in the past about this kind of situation, but it’s possible that he’ll change his mind. Alternatively, he could try to make everyone angry by inviting ++Duncan in some sort of non-voting “observer” status.
A. From #8 Bernini: “At this rate we’ll be in full communion with the Unitarian Universalists in 10 years.â€
10? How about tomorrow?
How about 10+ years ago?
B. Has anyone read the ENS comments? I can’t seem to locate what others are saying?
Ross’ alternatives have the ring of probability about them, but one bottom line is this, that +++Williams has lost enormous power and therefore enormous leverage. There is, I suspect, widespread agreement among Anglicans that he has crippled himself for a variety of reasons and that the ABC’s function is substantially diminished in both long and short run.
Moreover, if Ross’ #1 and #2 come to pass, as seems reasonable, then what the ABC does or does not do is of small consequence, since the disaffected Anglicans in America – and this is a large number now – will flock to the CCP, and the disaffected TEC parishes will see an attractive new organizational home to go to, an American one at last, a shift the ABC and TEC can do nothing
about. Should this happen, TEC will see that a very big dog has gotten into its backyard, one much bigger than itself. Moreover, should this happen, religion will be back on the front pages everywhere. Larry
+Duncan’s meeting with ++Williams could indicate that something might be in the works. Look at it this way: The “deposition” of +Schofield didn’t work, and he led us to the Province of the Southern Cone. +Duncan was “deposed,” and he led his diocese south and joined us. +Iker is likely to be the next on Mrs Schori’s hit list for “deposition,” and he’ll take his diocese out, too.
It takes three dioceses to constitute a province of the Anglican Communion. ++Williams has recognized both +Schofield and +Duncan as bishops of the Communion, and he is probably going to do the same with +Iker. That’s three bishops of the Communion, along with their dioceses. And if +Ackerman and his diocese leave, so much the better! What does that tell you?
#17:
Unless I missed a communication, +++Rowan recognized +Schofield (and presumably +Duncan as well) as being still bishops of the Anglican Communion via their connection to the Southern Cone. The status of their dioceses is another matter, and so far as I know he hasn’t said anything definitive on how he views that.
Based on his past statements, he’s not thrilled by this alternate-province concept. He did, if I recall correctly, encourage the formation of a network of reasserters within TEC, but he seems to have envisioned it as precisely that, a network within TEC.
Now, GAFCON has strongly implied, and a number of other reasserters have said directly, that as time goes on they’re less and less interested in what +++Rowan envisions. However, he does still preside over and exercise power of invitation to the current councils of the Communion; so if GAFCON wants to move ahead with a non-Canterbury-centered Communion then at some point they’re going to have to break with +++Rowan in order to issue their own invitations. So far they’ve been holding back from taking that final step, apparently in hopes that TEC will take it first, but one of these days somebody is going to be forced to blink. I’m just curious to see if it will be (+)+Duncan and the February Primates’ Meeting that will bring about that nictitation.
I don’t see any reason to split per #17. I don’t imagine +Duncan would be seated as a primate until there is a recognised Communion province which he heads. I expect that if they feel that they have the strength to then the GS Primates might well initiate the process necessary to bring this before the Primates’ Meeting and ACC.
This may well now be necessary to prevent further chaos in other provinces and to look after the 100,000 Anglicans such a province would represent – larger than the Scottish Episcopal Church and the Church in Wales combined and which we do not wish to lose. In effect leaving TEC to stew in its own juice and moving on.
TEC have done nothing to address the issues raised at Lambeth, the WCG or CPP proposals and instead embarked on a campaign of further attrition and persecution. They have no one but themselves to blame and there are some indications that Mrs Schori is making preparations to depart from the Communion and set up her own hegemony with those who she thinks TEC can sway [vide comments in Europe, the withdrawal of James Rosenthal from the ACO etc]. I wonder what the pew sitters in TEC would think of that?
Sorry that is split per #14
Personaly, I don’t care what the AC does or does not do. At this point it makes no difference to me whether I am in communion with the ABC or not.
Pageantmaster, I agree that Mrs Schori appears to be taking steps to take TEC out of the Anglican Communion, and I believe she’ll try to take as many of her friends with her as possible. I believe that she thinks TEC has the strength……the financial stength, anyway……to accomplish this; thus getting even with the rest of the Communion by taking TEC’s money with her, and undercutting its finances. She likes to think she has the strength to do whatever she pleases; never mind what the rest of the Communion thinks or wants. She’s her own worst enemy, I’m afraid.
The ABC indicated that the “Pastoral Forum” (I think that was the term) would be in place by the end of October. Involvement by +Duncan in this would throw a wrench in everything.
Not sure why this is a huge deal. I’m glad he met with Duncan. I can speculate about politics, but a good leader touches base with all sorts of conditions of people.
I doubt that Duncan will be included in such a “pastoral” forum. More likely Orthodox people who don’t have issues about “polluting” themselves by touching TEC will be given more authority.