Statistics leave no doubt that the number of women religious has dropped sharply over the last 50 years, but there is an ongoing debate over the reasons for the decline.
The question surfaced recently when L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, asked one priest to review another priest’s book about the phenomenon.
Italian Claretian Father Angelo Pardilla, author of “Religious Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow,” said the principal cause for the decline was that many religious misunderstood the teaching of the Second Vatican Council and lost a sense of their identity.
Number of nuns declining? Depends on where your looking. Orthodox monasticism (both male and female) is experiencing a renaissance. Even here in the United States (hardly a culturally Orthodox country) there has been a sharp rise in the number of monasteries and convents as also the numbers of those pursuing the angelic life.
Under the mercy,
[url=http://ad-orientem.blogspot.com/]John[/url]
An [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj4pUphDitA]Orthodox [/url] Christian
I really hate saying this. But it is true. With a few exceptions the vast majority of RC nuns I know would be right at home in TEC. I hope things are getting better. But my purely anecdotal experiences are not encouraging.
I’ve been told that since Vatican II the number of women in leadership positions in the Catholic Church has dropped by 75%. This would probably be in large part b/c of the emptying out of convents that used to supply school principals, hospital administrators, etc. Can anyone on this blog corroborate that statistic? If it’s true, it says that while Catholic women cannot expect to be ordained in the Catholic priesthood, they have, at the same time, lost a vast level of influence and, frankly, power that could have been used to develop greater roles of responsibility for women that so many women (especially women religious) now seek/demand.
My own un-researched theory is that pre-conciliar educational standards for women religious, though exceptional in some cases, were generally poor. I’ve seen how even today Catholic religious (men and women) can get through degree programs in seminaries and schools of theology more easily than their lay colleagues. So, when women religious had the opportunity, after Vatican II, to respond creatively, I suspect they often lacked the resources to pull it off, frankly. It’s not too late to take up the challenge, but it will obviously have to be done by a much smaller group and one that has to steer a Catholic/catholic course between either a simple return to the past or hopping onto the tired progressivist bandwagon.
I think there are a number of problems.
First, during the Great Depression, public schools became free, mandatory, and state supported (mostly to discourage companies from hiring (cheaper) children instead of adults). This meant that one of the prime ministries of nuns, their teaching vocation, was undercut. Then in the 1960s medicare and medicaid came in, and hospitals became profitable, rather than the small, free, supported by donations on a shoe string budget, and run by nuns who worked at slave wages. This ended the second major vocation for US women religious. At about the same time, Vatican II came in, and everybody figured that it was only a matter of time before nuns got to be priests, so instead of looking for a new vocation, US nuns started lobbying Rome for “equal rights/rites”. In the meantime, with essentially nothing to do, other than run a nursing home for increasingly elderly nuns, younger vocations dried up. The antiauthoritarian culture of the 1960s did not help, but the big problem was loss of vocation.
Me, I think that US nuns might flourish, once more, if they found something productive to do. I would suggest woman’s prison ministry. Folks leaving prison now essentially wind up homeless and unemployable. The discipline and structure of a monastic life would, I think, be comforting and helpful. If one could combine that with farming or some other small business, souls might be saved, and vocations renewed.
“Of course, today’s service was outstanding in every respect… .” I can’t imagine a better caricature of the Episcopal church. No wonder the poor Catholic nuns were swept forward. Who can resist a publican at prayer?
Those Catholic Nuns went forward in direct violation of their church’s rules on inter-communion with non-Roman Catholic churches.
Re # 7
You make an excellent point. I believe that the RCC considers taking communion in a non-Catholic Church to be a “mortal sin.” While I am not surprised that they would do this, I am saddened. The sharing of the sacred things is prohibited where there is not unity of faith. This is the immemorial discipline of the Church. As an Orthodox Christian were I to commune in an Episcopal Church I would be excommunicated.
Under the mercy,
[url=http://ad-orientem.blogspot.com/]John[/url]
An [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj4pUphDitA]Orthodox [/url] Christian
[i] Comment deleted by request of commenter. [/i]
By the way, back to the story:
I have been hearing about declining vocations in the Roman Catholic Church since Vatican II. The changes were so sweeping that many religious were left hanging, not knowing their place in the grand scheme of the Catholic Church as securely as they had before. Cloistered orders were being phased out in favor of ministry to the world, no longer serve the world by closeted, contemplative prayer.
There were also a lot of movies at that time that glamorized the ‘worldly pull’ for the religious, particularly nuns (e.g., [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065537/]Change of Habit[/url]), or the hardships of convent life ([url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073160/]In This House of Brede[/url]), etc. No more positive portrayals of clergy such as Fr. O’Malley ([url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036872/]Going My Way[/url]/[url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037536/] Bells of St. Mary’s[/url]), etc.
Plus more and more emphasis was put on sexuality in tv shows and in movies, that the implication was if you are not married or in a physical relationship, you are not living fully. “And to give that up for something as ‘silly’ as religion! My goodness! You are stupid!”
So it should be no surprise to hear that vocations are still hurting. In college we often had guest speakers at Newman Club on the positive aspects of vocations (sponsoring ‘vocaré’ weekends? I think), but they didn’t really get across! The church needs to really re-emphasize how important these ministries are. Not everyone is called to marriage, or even the secular life.
hmmm, I’m sure you did admit somewhere on this forum (and that it was brought up several times) that you do not believe any or most of the creed or the scriptures or the main points of Christian doctrine, includign the incarnation and the physical resurrection of Jesus the Christ, the only begotten son of God. I’ll have to look back over the posts, and if I’m wrong, I’ll apologize.
Sorry about the inference to the nuns, that was an error on my part, as it was still on my mind from AO’s post.
No, as I said, I may have been mistaken, but it was not a deliberate falsehood or dishonesty.
I was thinking of someone who had a blog quoted where he listed the things he DISagreed with about Christianity, and thus put himself outside of Christianity, while maintaining his membership in the Episcopal Club with the only requirement being baptism and not belief. This was brought up several times in different threads and I [i]THOUGHT[/i] it was you. But doing a forum search of T1:9 under “Hooper creeds” I found this on [url=http://new.kendallharmon.net/wp-content/uploads/index.php/t19/article/15846]this thread[/url]:
[blockquote]While I don’t think there is any doubt that the Bible was written by humans … I do believe that those humans had God’s divine inspiration behind them. I would not devote myself to my Christian faith were I to think of the Holy Bible a book of mere fantasies.
Each Sunday I recite the Creed and profess my Christian faith … and I do so with much eagerness … with a hunger … a need to say aloud the words … and I believe every word of that Creed. I go to the Altar rail knowing that I am unworthy of the Salvation Christ offers me … and yet still it is given me. [/blockquote]
So I apologize for thinking it was you and posting accordingly.
But not for ‘lying’ as you have accused me privately. I did not lie.
Now if someone can email me privately and let me know of whom I am thinking, I would appreciate it!!!
Elves, if you could just delete my post (#10) to which this conversation refers, I would appreciate it.
Peace to you!
Jim Elliott <>< Florida
Not “hooper”, Hopper!
Never mind the private email. I found the person of whom I was thinking. I will not mention his name here. I’m in enough trouble with Hopper as it is without getting someone else angry with me. 🙂
YAY! All is well again!
Elves, sorry for cluttering up this thread.