[The Rev. Lou] Divis first learned about Goth services while studying at General Theological Seminary, and further research taught her that such services are not uncommon in England, even at such venerable institutions as Coventry Cathedral and St. Edward King and Martyr, Cambridge.
Divis often drives past a closed car lot in the greater Scranton area. One day she found herself thinking that the church could go out of business as well. Like automobile manufacturers who are struggling to meet consumers’ expectations for more energyefficient vehicles, she thought, “We need to market a ‘product,’ if you will, that meets people where they are today. Maybe Goth services can provide an alternative energy of some sort.”
The church building, built in 1887, itself was an inspiration, said Divis, as she described the dark red stone outside and the dark wooden ceiling inside. She spray painted dollar-store cookie tins black, filling them with sand and candle stubs or incense. She dons a black cassock, as does the acolyte, while the priest who presides over the Eucharist wears a white chasuble and stole. It’s “a dramatic contrast of dark and light, and the overall effect is lovely,” the deacon said.
“…the overall effect is lovely”.
Yes,
After all the goal IS to put butts in the seats and dimes in the collection.
I’m not sure I see all that much difference between the Goth service (as described) and, say, a Taize service. Kudos to Deacon Divis for imagination.
“Goth” is of course different for different folks, but sometimes it has a strong hint (and sometimes more than a hint) of Satanism and witchcraft, or being dark and depressed and nihilistic–even suicidal. For most who dress this way, it’s simply a way of shocking and standing out. For a church to open its doors to such folks is well and good and should be encouraged. But to embrace this worldview, or even mimic it, is astoundingly poor judgment, as when Goth does mean something, it is usually enimical to Christianity. This is just another example of a dying church trying to “be” the culture in hopes of bringing folks in the doors. It will have no staying power (because why does one need to go to church if all it does is mimic the culture?), and will prove to be yet another fad that makes the Episcopal Church look profoundly silly and inconsequential.
The church is in “tiny Nanticoke, Pa., population 10,000”, and is part of the diocese of Bethlehem. It’s depressing statistics are [url=http://12.0.101.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_115200985134AM.pdf ]here[/url]. It looks like it has an ASA of about 10 and a plate and pledge of about $5000. This does not include the “Goth service” since that only started in November.
I don’t necessarily object to a “Goth service” but it won’t stop the inevitable. What I find sad is that liberals who are killing the denomination like Ms Russell or Mr Robinson won’t care when this little church closes and the small town is deprived of a space of worship. I would tell them, to not expect a “Well done, good and faithful servant.”
BTW, here are the lyrics of one of the two songs mentioned in the article:
[blockquote] When Im with you baby, I go out of my head
And I just cant get enough, I just cant get enough
All the things you do to me and everything you said
And I just cant get enough, I just cant get enough
We slip and slide as we fall in love
And I just cant seem to get enough
We walk together, were walking down the street
And I just cant get enough, I just cant get enough
Every time I think of you I know we have to meet
And I just cant get enough, I just cant get enough
Its getting hotter, its our burning love
And I just cant seem to get enough
And when it rains, youre shining down for me
And I just cant get enough, I just cant get enough
Just like a rainbow you know you set me free
And I just cant get enough, I just cant get enough
Youre like an angel and you give me your love
And I just cant seem to get enough[/blockquote]
I thought the Goths were Arians, thanks to Bishop Ulfilas?
Great shot, azusa! The Goths were Arian.
There are at least two Christian Goth sites on the Web that have a large following:
[url=http://www.thefirstchurchofthelivingdead.com/]First Church of the Living Dead[/url] who take their name from Galatians 2:20:
“I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.”
And
[url=http://www.christiangoth.com/]Christian Goth[/url]. Their Scripture inspiration is found in Isaiah 9:2
“The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; Those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them a light has shined.”
Other sites dedicated to spreading the Gospel among Goths from Goths who are Christian can be found at this [url=http://www.fehq.org/gothic.htm]directory link[/url]. It’s a valid ministry, and a very real lifestyle/counter-culture.
I applaud the church for reaching out to them.
Peace
Jim Elliott <>< Florida
I’m a little surprised they picked “I Just Can’t Get Enough” by Depeche Mode instead of the obvious choice, “Personal Jesus”.
I don’t really think of Depeche Mode of being that Goth however. Of course most “real” Goth groups have very anti-Christian messages such as The Sisters of Mercy, Christian Death and later work by The Damned.
That being said, many people in the Goth culture really need Jesus. If this can get them into Church then I’m very much for it, as long as the message isn’t compromised to reach them. I still remember one Sunday at Cathedral Church of the Advent when Paul Zahl was Dean of the Cathedral and he mentioned the band “Ministry” in his sermon. I tnink I was one of about 5 people in the whole congregation to understand the reference.
I just wrote a letter to Rev. Davis, some of which I took from my post above:
Good morning and Greetings in Jesus Name!
I read with interest the article telling about your holding a Goth service at your church, and think it wonderful that you would do so. However, I did have a concern about the music you choose for the service, as some of the lyrics were, shall we say, not very appropriate for a house of Christian worship?
Realizing that many in the Goth subculture would — maybe not reject — but perhaps not be attracted to traditional hymns, I feel that music in a Christian service should reflect the full glory of God.
I’m sure you researched this before starting out, but there are several websites dedicated to the Christian Goth music. Not only do they have their own websites, prayer pages, ministry resources, etc. but also music in the Goth Tradition but with Christian lyrics. and many Christian hymns can be used quite successfully in such a service. CDs are not necessary, organ music fits right in with the Goth culture. Live music is always best (Ps. 150:6 Let everything which has breath give praise to the Lord.) and they will know when you (generic “you”) are not giving them your all.
If I may:
“The First Church of the Living Dead” who take their name from Galatians 2:20:
“I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.â€
http://www.thefirstchurchofthelivingdead.com/
And
Christian Goth. Their Scripture inspiration is found in Isaiah 9:2
“The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; Those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them a light has shined.â€
http://www.christiangoth.com/
Other sites dedicated to spreading the Gospel among Goths from Goths who are Christian can be found at this directory link:
http://www.fehq.org/gothic.htm
It’s a valid ministry, and a very real lifestyle/counter-culture. I applaud you for reaching out to them.
The Peace of the Risen Lord be with you!
Jim Elliott <>< North Florida, USA (born in Wilkes-Barre, with family still there!)
I saw one of these when I was in England. A church in Cambridge (www.thegotheucharist.org.uk/) did them on a regular basis. I thought it was really bizarre, but then the whole Goth movement is much more socially mainstream in Britain than it is here in the States.
I also tend to recoil from trendy Eucharists like the U2charist, etc. Mainly because the “trend” becomes that which is the center of worship, and when the center is not clearly God, its a serious problem for me. But then, I also understand the need to reach out to the people who are completely off the radar screen of traditional church life/worship. I had a friend of mine who was very much into the Goth thing, and he loved it. So, I don’t know. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
I once saw someone with a T-shirt that said:
Candles. Incense. Chanting.
A CHALICE of BLOOD.
The Church is
GOTHER THAN YOU.
Black cassock? Check.
White Surplice? Check.
Tippet? Check.
Clearly those who still do Morning and Evening Prayer regularly should advertise it as a Goth service. That sounds far more accessible than this big to do over High and Low Church.
[i] Gother Than You [/i] —Ross [#11]
I love it!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
Hippo Regius [#12]: As in Gothic vestments?
You got it. They’re bound to love the black chasubles for Good Friday and All Souls’ Day, too. I can only wonder if they vehemently reject the fiddleback chasuble in favor of the…
No, I can’t bring myself to say it.
California gets so much bad press., This is actually an article in a local California paper about a service held in Pennsylvania. Please change the head line.
[Corrected, thank you 1928 PB Loyalist – Elf]
There is a magazine run by some ex goth-nihilist anarchist punk types in California called [url=http://www.deathtotheworld.com/index2.html]”Death to the World.” [/url] They advertise themselves as the champions of the “The Last True Rebellion.” I have heard anecdotally that they have made some interesting conversions among people one would not typically expect to see in church on Sundays. They are missionaries to a segment of the population trapped in a dark underground subculture that few of us ever come into contact with. The [url=http://www.deathtotheworld.com/about/about.html]About US[/url] section was particularly interesting reading (if you can get past all the skulls).
Under the mercy,
[url=http://ad-orientem.blogspot.com/]John[/url]
An [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj4pUphDitA]Orthodox [/url] Christian
I would totally be a goth if I weren’t, uh, 51 with three kids. I think it’s a great idea, as long as the music’s appropriate. And I can certainly think you could exploit the inherent Gothiness of Maundy Thursday and Good Friday. If they can have rock masses or folk masses, why not?
YECCHHH!
Why can’t ECUSA go back to its roots; to the days of Thradition? The Clown Mass. Or the Hip Hop Mass? An Anglican from the days of vertebrae long ago said “All that is not eternal is eternally out of date”. C.S. Lewis
nwlayman… the clown Mass is a reason to leave any denomination.
Want some more metal/goth Christianity? Try Demon Hunter.
http://www.demonhunter.net/
You’d think they’d ditch the contemporary songs, keep it solemn and use chant, instead. That just seems “gothier.” Heck, I’d enjoy a service like that and guess I could even buy black eyeliner for the occasion. ;>)
OK, I would draw the line on clown mass!
What a Goth needs is an invitation to a full on Anglo-Catholic Solemn High Mass done at night with no artificial lights and more candles.
Still, I commend this effort.
Devotion to the Sacred heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary would be good to.
This ministry is a good and creative example of liturgical evangelism. This is where Anglicanism still shines!
A gothic service is when parishioners dress like priests in makeup.
Based on the description of the congregation, doesn’t seem as if it reached many goths — perhaps just people interested in something different. Our church has some “goths” but they don’t require a special service. If this type service (with a more onbase music selection) actually reached goths it would be great.
Julia, (#25)
I received a response, I’ll include some of it here:
[blockquote]We had 4 ‘real’ goths enter during the sermon the first week, and left after 2-3 sentences about God’s love. The rest of the congregation (35 first service, 8, then 9 – one was cancelled due to weather) was made up of people who needed to feel welcome and loved… I would like to know more about reaching out to the Goth community, as well as others who need to place their trust in things that don’t rot, and to reach out to those who have had a ‘bad’ or disagreeable experience with church, church people, and a God who doesn’t answer prayers in the way we think they might be answered.[/blockquote]
Teatime (#21) [i]You’d think they’d ditch the contemporary songs, keep it solemn and use chant, instead. [/i]
[blockquote]The liturgy was experimental for Advent. We used Gregorian Chant, one song each week from Flux (Love Spirals Downward) and The Best of Depeche Mode. I was careful to listen to the content and find lyrics and music that would glorify God.[/blockquote]
From the response I got it seemed like she was truly sincere in reaching out with the Gospel. She also says the parish is now listed as being ‘at risk’.
Peace!
Jim Elliott <>< Florida
I feel so EXCLUDED by this. When are they going to do a Preppy service? They could wear madras cassocks and the stole could have little spouting Nantucket whales on it. The altar cloth could be in a pink and green color scheme. Now that would be excellent.
🙂
Sorry, I’m just trying to be humorous, not critical, but God knows many Preppies need Jesus too!
FWIW this is untrue. Such services are very uncommon in England. It’s surely right that the Gospel should be proclaimed in a manner that can speak powerfully to different cultures. It’s also true that the church is Christ’s and the eucharist should express its visible, cross cultural unity (or genuinely aspire to). Thus the image of the Goth eucharist as opening another market sector is perhaps unfortunate. ON the other hand the tacit acceptance of fragmentary community sends a challenge not simply to this liturgy but to the liturgies on Sunday morning. Are they too, rather closer to the “Goth Mass” than one might think? Are theya liturgical expression of just another fragmented community? Are they really simply another “market sector”?
BTW I’d go for the Cure any day over Depeche Mode.
I would have used Mister Mister’s [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNKbHJ3PTu4&feature=related]”Kyrie”[/url] and This Ascension’s [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2SNvA1uMI4]”Mysterium”[/url] (they are popular in the Goth community) which is perfect for Advent, anyway.
Not much of a Depeche fan, either.
[i]I feel so EXCLUDED by this [/i]
Don’t complain; Goth yourself!