The images and clichés came spluttering out of the laptops of church people and religious affairs correspondents on Tuesday: The pope has parked his tanks on the Church of England’s lawn; Rome has made a hostile takeover bid for Canterbury. It is understandable if people are at a loss for words, since the move has been made so decisively and so without warning. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, knew nothing of the plan until a few days ago.
What has happened? Basically, it seems that Pope Benedict XVI has offered disgruntled Anglicans the opportunity to come over to Roman Catholicism en masse. Such an arrangement already exists in America. Anglicans who dislike the way they see things going in their own church (female bishops, gay bishops, gay female bishops ”” take your pick) are allowed to regroup within the Church of Rome. Although their priests will need to be retrained and re-ordained, they will be able to continue to use their traditional rites and Prayer Books, and to stay together as congregations.
There is talk in England of as many as 1,000 clergy members taking this offer. Even allowing for the numerical exaggeration, which always occurs when enemies of liberalism congregate, this is a huge potential figure.
It’s a fun article, but I wonder why Wilson thinks “In time to come, I confidently predict, there will be others smiling ruefully, too — such as the ‘liberal’ Anglicans left behind, who will watch a pope (I guess 20 years from now) ordaining women to the Catholic priesthood.” I wonder what crystal ball Wilson is looking into. The Popes have made it clear that the Church does not have the authority to alter the apostolic structure of the priesthood. Plus, given the ecumenical priority of Orthodox/Catholic relations, and given Orthodoxy’s emphatic opposition to women’s ordination, it’s unlikely that Rome will do anything to jeopardize the possibility of reunion.
Fr. Kimel, I’m kind of surprised that you gave that sentence (or any of this clueless piece) a serious response.
I can see the Catholic church permitting clergy to marry. That was always a matter of discipline, not doctrine. I do not see the Catholic church permitting women to be priests for that is a matter of theology. Every church that has experimented with women priests have experienced a sharp drop off in numbers. It therefore cannot be said to be “of God”.
The Catholic church believes that women and men are called to different roles in the church. As a former Anglican woman who toyed with the notion of holy orders before deciding I was called to be Catholic, I agree. Personally, I think of the roles as being similar to the roles played by the proton and the neutron in the atom. The proton and the neutron as similar in atomic mass. The job of the proton is to do the “work” of the atom (enter chemical arrangements etc). The job of the neutron is to stabilize the atomic nucleus. An atom that loses its protons is inert and can not combine with any other atoms. An atom that loses its neutrons, explodes.
It is not “unfair” that neutrons can’t act like protons. It is not unfair that men can’t give birth to children, and it is not unfair that the Holy Spirit does not transform bread and wine into God, when a woman officiates. That is the position of the Catholic church.
Just to chime in here and say that if the author truly believes the the Roman Catholic Church will be ordaining women in 20 years, he’s clearly ignorant or delusional. Not a chance. Particularly seeing how this issue has ripped the fabric of the Anglican Communion apart. I’m not saying that WO is impossible forever and ever, but it will take generations before it would ever be considered. And frankly, I think the chaos resulting from WO of both priests and bishops in the Anglican communion just added at least another 200 years before it would ever be seriously considered in RC world.
I listened yesterday to the the mp3s of the recent Forward in Faith UK Conference (http://www.forwardinfaith.com/news/na09-10.html). Archbishop John Hepworth of TAC spoke and joked, as I recall, that Archbishop in CDF had said to him that they should make a date in their diaries to discuss married clergy “in two hundred years”.
I wonder what you make, however, of his argument that a weaker Church of England deprived of state support will lead to the complete secularization of England? I would argue the opposite: it is precisely its ties with the state that has deprived the Church of England of much of its vigor. From my perspective as a London-based and rather conservative Roman Catholic, there is a big change already visible within the Church of England, and it will accelerate with the departure of some of the Anglo-Catholics. I refer to the growing charismatic evangelicalism which is the only part of the Anglican church to be expanding. Not my cup of tea, exactly, but profoundly missional and evangelistic and in its own way impatient with the endless compromises and ‘muddle of the middle’ that a state church must endure. Here the evangelicals take a good deal of their inspiration from American models eg church planting.
Clueless, 3, wrote: “Every church that has experimented with women priests have experienced a sharp drop off in numbers.”
Try documenting that beyond the same old mainline denominations.
Try documenting that beyond the same old mainline denominations.
Well I think Wicca is expanding. Which other “denominations” have had a happy outcome with WO?
The Assemblies of God ordain women and are growing; I suspect some other pentecostal groups could say the same. It’s fair to note the non-sacramental theology of pentecostalism and that ordination is not to a sacramental role. I’m not sure the Assemblies allow ordained women to be pastors in any case.
Clueless, you familiar with the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC)?
http://web.me.com/rfholm/iWeb/Site/Publications 1.html
I don’t know what happened with the previous link – it was changed on pushing the submit button. Something about the percent symbol. “Publications” should be followed by percent symbol 201 dot html. Sorry for the problem.
[blockquote]I can see the Catholic church permitting clergy to marry.[/blockquote] Won’t ever happen. The Church MAY permit married men to be ordained within the Latin Rite at some point, but I’d bet my life that it will never permit ordained men to marry.
Poor England. The World Turned Upside Down. I dont think the West is going to have a happy ending. Keeps lookin more and more like 400AD.