MT: I’d like to talk to you a little about Grace Episcopal in particular. Can you give me an overview of the place of Grace Episcopal in the Anglican Communion? How does the relationship between the members of the Communion work in practicality?
TV: The Anglican Communion, coming as it did out of the Reformation, is what I call ecclesiastically schizophrenic. Basically we’re Catholic (just not Roman Catholic) but, with our Reformed fear of papal authority we’re very decentralized. Grace is a mission (meaning the Bishop is the rector, head, of the parish) in the Diocese of San Joaquin which in turn is part of the Episcopal Church. Each national church (e.g., Canada, Nigeria) is autonomous, within a loose confederation headed by the Archbishop of Canterbury who, however, has more of a bully-pulpit authority rather than a legislative one.
MT: What are the primary doctrines of Grace Episcopal? How are these connected to the broader Episcopal Church? Are there differences or are the doctrines consistent?
TV: Grace was founded as, and is, a welcoming and inclusive parish, which means, especially in Bako, that we fully welcome LGBT folk. We were also founded as an outreach parish, reaching out in love to others rather than focusing overmuch on ourselves. The two main tenets that separate Grace and the Episcopal Church (TEC) from the schismatics is that we embrace our LGBT sisters and brothers and we ordain women.
[blockquote]The two main tenets that separate Grace and the Episcopal Church (TEC) from the schismatics is that we embrace our LGBT sisters and brothers and we ordain women.[/blockquote]
I’m edified! Well, ….not really.
Mona Twocats-Romero Is she a journalist working for a real newspaper? The “Fresno Examiner” appears to be a digital vanity press where anyone can become a correspondent.
[blockquote]TV: Since our web page is out of date (the new one up soon, I hope), probably the best way to contact us is through the parish phone: 661-431-9020. Since we don’t really have a church, the parish phone is my cell phone![/blockquote]
This is what the Faux EDSJ calls a parish.
10 people go to this “church”. Birthed from the loins of Mrs. Schori (not General convention) it has born its fruit.
Intercessor
Mr. Vivian is bred out of Jon Bruno’s LA Diocese.
Enough said…why was that not in this very informative journalistic masterpiece? Plumb forgot?
Intercessor
…was there actually any doctrine in the response?
I’m thinking he needs to understand that “Catholic (just not Roman Catholic” is the biggest lie of the via media. Once we rid ourselves of that understanding, things start to fall in place.
A sample of the Inclusive Mr. Vivian for your enjoyment:
http://frjakestopstheworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/rev-dr-tim-vivian-kissing-leper.html
Intercessor
It’s quite common to see comments like “The two main tenets that separate Grace and the Episcopal Church (TEC) from the schismatics is that we embrace our LGBT sisters and brothers”, but there’s never any evidence produced to show that reasserter parishes actually turn away LGBT individuals. I, for one, have never seen anyone checking at the door of an “Orthodox Anglican/Episcopal” church to prevent LGBT’s from being admitted; nor have I heard of any [documented] expulsion decrees issued against them. I *do* know firsthand of Traditionalists who were flatly told by their Rector that they would be denied communion, and should leave their lifelong parish if they did not wish to be given the “left foot of fellowship”. (Church of the Epiphany, suburban city in Texas)
I’d like to see just one of these accusations by reappraisers cite specific sources and incidents. Lacking that, their words are shown to be hollow and meaningless.
#7. Uh Clint,
This may seem like a belated Epiphany but your comment made it clear to me that the Traditionalist churches may be actually more inclusive than the “inclusive” Revisionist churches. Who is deposing all the Clergy too?
A very interesting (yawn) interview. I find it fascinating tho that a Phd. and a Priest is so inept in describing what Anglicanism is. Were I to interview “TV” I might ask: Since you are no longer the only “Episcopal Church” in Bakersfield, can you tell us why your own congregation split?
It is also very interesting that “TV” makes no mention that while he is certain that TEC is “Anglican” – the rest of the Anglican Communion acknowledges that we – the Anglican Church in North America (ACNA) – are too! But that’s an article for another date.
The principal message of Grace Episcopal (as well as TEC) is: Come as you are; stay as you are! Perhaps that is exactly why his LGBT students don’t come. If they’re OK as they are (without Jesus and the Church) why would they need to come?
Just one other fact that “TV” needs to know – his is not the only Anglican Church with Gays – we have them in my parish – and we treat them the same as everyone: With the Love of Jesus, with the offer of His Love and Forgiveness, with the Power of the Holy Spirit (like all of us) to challenge every part of who we are, and the Belief that HE is the ONE who can and does change us. It is a Transformational Gospel!
The end point is this: Will you be a Church that is “Issue Oriented” or “Christ Centered”? “TV’s” parish is clearly of the first type. I wish them well. They need our prayers.
Blessings in Jesus Name to ALL!
John Riebe+
Rector, All Saints Anglican Church, Bakersfield
#9. John Riebe+
Cool response! Pax to you and your church. YBIC
DITTO!
The Gozpell according to Grace: “Grace was founded as, and is, a welcoming and inclusive parish, which means, especially in Bako, that we fully welcome LGBT folk.”
The true, authentic Gozpell of the EcUSA/TEc/GCc/EO-PAC which they export without regard to either the Gospel or the communion of Anglicans or the church universal!