It goes without saying that the recent Consent for the Bishop Suffragan of the Diocese of Los Angeles has been a topic of discussion among the gathered bishops and how that will impact our relationships with the larger Communion. Although we have not had a plenary discussion on this development we will no doubt do so when the subject of the Anglican Covenant later this week occurs. Of course, her presence at our meeting makes it difficult to discuss this openly and honestly, both for her and the House gathered. I bid your prayers that we may have a spirit of mutual respect and forbearance for all involved. I do believe that we will do so with sensitivity and concern for all.
Yesterday we had a discussion on “Incarnation” and “Salvation” as a part of the “Around One Table” initiative. These were refreshing conversations regarding who we are and what we are to be about. Many of you will be surprised to learn that, for the most part, the House believes we need to be more missional as a Church and begin proclaiming Jesus as the way to salvation. It remains to be seen where this will go so far as a definitive statement as to who we are as a Church but the conversation has begun.
[blockquote]Of course, her (Glasspool) presence at our meeting makes it difficult to discuss this openly and honestly, both for her and the House gathered. I bid your prayers that we may have a spirit of mutual respect and forbearance for all involved. I do believe that we will do so with sensitivity and concern for all.[/blockquote]
REALLY??
So she sits prettily among them, receiving maximum sensitivity. So it is definite and sure that whatever discussion they do have concerning the “impact on the Communion” will not focus on anything that includes any idea of repentance.
And so it goes.
They seem to have no difficulty at all discussing how to depose from orders and otherwise vilify those faithful bishops who have tried to hold to the Faith once received. No need for sensitivity there.
On one hand it is discouraging that the next theological issue to settle for the HOB is soteriology, especially considering that as catholic Christians this was settled some time ago. On the other hand however, it is encouraging that the HOB admits there is such a thing as “salvation,” and recognizes the urgency of this discussion. It is worth praying that hope beyond hope, Jesus might manifest himself in these discussions.
EcUSA/TEc HOB- continuing revisioning “their church” to heretical understandings in the face of God’s judgment upon their actions. Another two defining moments in the slide into apostasy: non-bishops and non-soteriology. No doubt they will both be approved. I wager the “bishop” issue garners more time than “soteriology according to TEc”.
Following from #1 (LumenChristie), I believe that if Miss Glasspool is present at the HOB meeting, that’s all the more reason that the implications of her election must be discussed openly, honestly, forthrightly and in detail, of course avoiding an ad hominem attack. I also believe that she should be asked to discern prayerfully whether her withdrawal would be in the best interest of Christian unity.
[blockquote]Presented were both the “traditional†view of relationships in marriage on the “right†and the “liberal†view of relationships on the “leftâ€. Instead of one paper requested by the House of Bishops we received two from divergent views. The theologians involved in the preparation of the “paper†determined early on in their study that it was not possible to present One paper on the subject. So the conversation continues with two very divergent views, which in my mind, shows where we are as a Church on the matter of same-sex relationships.[/blockquote]
I’m sure that we all look forward to the opportunity to study this report.
The left counts on us being polite, while they are smiling in our faces and stabbing us in the back. Someone in TEC needs to stand up and say “no more”. But the HoB isn’t the place. They worship collegeality, more than the Lord. TEC is in the mess it is right now because the orthodox, myself included, were ladies and gentlemen while Louie Crew, et. al. stuffed their agenda down our throats. If no one is able to admit there is an elephant in the room, they may as well all give Mary and Gene a big hug and start singing Kum Ba Yah. Afterall, they are at camp.
I don’t think any of these bishops can speak authoritatively about Salvation and none should speak of the subject with any degree of confidence.
Yes, Rqlph,you are correct! However, remember that TEC California believes that the HONOR of being the first lesbian bishop vastly superceeds ANY Christian Unity concern. And it would appear that this is not something anyone there would raise for discussion. Likewise,the unimportant topic of Christian Law Suites. Their children might get the wrong idea.
[blockquote]”…for the most part, the House believes we need to be more missional as a Church and begin proclaiming Jesus as the way to salvation. It remains to be seen where this will go so far as a definitive statement as to who we are as a Church but the conversation has begun.”[/blockquote]
Effective mission requires a reliable Gospel, and I am not confident that TEC can credibly communicate this relability. Sadly, many within TEC consider the Bible (and God) to be unreliable.
🙄
I am very hesitant to write this for we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and certainly no church is perfect. However, as a Christian who is not an Episcopalian I find it troublesome to consider that the Episcopal Church desires to become more missional. What will be taught to those innocent souls once they enter the doors?
Yes, 8 and 9 but most in the Diocese have disassociated themselves from false Gospel.
“…for the most part, the House believes we need to be more missional as a Church and begin proclaiming Jesus as the way to salvation. It remains to be seen where this will go so far as a definitive statement as to who we are as a Church but the conversation has begun.â€
Does no one beside me find this to be an absolutely incredible (and ridiculous) statement? How can this even be a question to be discussed? This is the purpose of the church – this is the basis of the Great Commission! The HOB has a question as to whether this is who we are as a church … My God, why have you forsaken us?
If even an orthodox bishop in a CP diocese gives such a muted response to the truly outrageous confirmation of Mary Glasspool as a bishop (albeit that it was fully expected), that to me is symptomatic of what’s wrong with the whole culture of TEC. Notice that implicitly politeness is treated as more important than faithfulness, that being respectufl is more important then being orthodox, etc.
Thus, there is a massive inhibition of the ability to [i]”speak the Truth”[/i] (which in the context of Eph. 4:14 must mean the true gospel, the Pauline one) because of the overwhelming desire to speak [i]”in love”[/i] (Eph. 4:15). The relativist values of the dominant culture simply pervade TEC, and this report by an honorable CP bishop illustrates that unpleasant reality all too well.
David Handy+
#10: ris655, as the vicar of an orthodox outpost in the diocese of LA, I can testify to you that your statement is wrong, wrong, wrong! Most simply refuse to make the choice of orthodoxy vs heresy. One of those who refuse to choose has told me repeatedly that “it doesn’t matter what you believe, just so you have a belief by which you live.” And so the diocese goes down the tubes, rejoicing that they have the first lesbian bishop.
desert padre
A gentle reminder that Jesus may use even what seems to us to be hopeless situations and the most unlikely people to do His good work. He is not bound by the limitations of our imaginations or the borders of our own tolerance. It is not unworthy to hope and pray that as the bishops discuss Salvation, Jesus who IS salvation may move among them. He is used to disciples who just don’t get it and who hide as He saves the world. Indeed He employs such people to do His work.
desertpadre, I am sorry as to my statement about California but am glad to hear from you that I am wrong!!!
RE: ” He is used to disciples who just don’t get it and who hide as He saves the world.”
Right — but what has that to do with the House of Bishops the vast majority of whom don’t believe the gospel?
Certainly Gollum “accomplished his purpose” — but of course, against his own will and effort. I suppose I could think of the bishops as multiple Gollums but somehow that doesn’t really connect with the notion that they are somehow “disciples.”
I love this line, though: “Many of you will be surprised to learn that, for the most part, the House believes we need to be more missional as a Church and begin proclaiming Jesus as the way to salvation.”
Heh — I don’t know anyone who is “surprised” to “learn” that the HOB thinks we should be more “missional” — desperation and acknowledgement is at last sinking in, I suspect.
If any bishop thinks s/he has anything to say that could not be said in Bishop-elect Glasspool’s presence, that ought to prompt some interior reflection. Is what that bishop has to say discriminatory? insulting? embarrassing? untrue? The Rev. Glasspool is neither a child nor a patient. Discussion “about” her as if she were is patronizing and unfair, IMHO.
So they’re all going to just make nice nice and reflect and ponder and indaba amongst themselves in the Piney Woods…..and not at all discuss the continuing rending apart of the Episcopal Church/Anglican Communion ?
#17–If Mary were a child or a patient, her parent or doctor would tell her that her behavior is inconsistent with the position she seeks. But because she is a partnered lesbian in TEC, they will say nothing.
“Of course, her presence at our meeting makes it difficult to discuss this openly and honestly, both for her and the House gathered”.
That sounds like cowardice on both sides, and there is a fine line between “sensitivity” and cowardice. She wants to sit in this kitchen, so why not take the heat? And why be afraid to turn the heat up? Just like an intervention, would all sit there quietly and not confront the drunk? If you don’t, the behavior/scenario will continue. Difficult questions can still be asked in a polite way. And, if she were not present, it would be way easier to talk ABOUT her rather than TO her? That makes it gossip, not mutual discussion.
Ridiculous–and illustrates one of the reasons why this Church is in the state it’s in. “I can’t ask anything difficult or deal with anything difficult because I need to be NICE”…meanwhile, the elephant in the room gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger.
“…begin proclaiming Jesus as the way to salvation”.
‘Begin’? That’s what a whole lot of us have been doing all along. Plus, if that’s your theology, you’re in major disagreement with your(at least) titular head, who told the newspaper in Arkansas that “Jesus is ‘a’ way, not THE way”…is she planning on changing her tune? Or has she remembered that she is head of a CHRISTIAN Church?
From the Archbishop of Sydney’s media statement dated 18 March 2010, commenting on the attitude of those within TEC to the Glasspool election:
[blockquote] This is a decisive moment for this ‘middle’ group. Their patience has been gentle and praiseworthy. But to wait longer would not be patience – it would be obstinacy or even an unworthy anxiety. Two things need to be made clear. First, that they are unambiguously opposed to a development which sanctifies sin and which is an abrogation of the word of the living God. Second, that they will take sufficient action to distance themselves from those who have chosen to walk in the path of disobedience. [/blockquote]