It would be merciful if, when tragedies such as Tucson’s occur, there were a moratorium on sociology. But respites from half-baked explanations, often serving political opportunism, are impossible because of a timeless human craving and a characteristic of many modern minds.
The craving is for banishing randomness and the inexplicable from human experience. Time was, the gods were useful. What is thunder? The gods are angry. Polytheism was explanatory. People postulated causations.
And still do. Hence: The Tucson shooter was (pick your verb) provoked, triggered, unhinged by today’s (pick your noun) rhetoric, vitriol, extremism, “climate of hate….”
“Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation of liberals whose default position in any argument is to indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left – devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data – is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding engagement with ideas…”
How about an Anglican edit?
“whose default position in any argument is to indict (traditional) opponents as (bigots). This McCarthyism of the left–devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data–is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding engagement with (traditional Christian theology)”…
I have found the orgy of liberal carrion picking over the bodies of the dead and wounded from Arizona to be one of the most shocking displays of cold calculation and “putting to good use” the victims that I think I have seen in the past two decades.
Why not just go ahead and pluck out the gold fillings while they’re at it?
Maybe there’s some way they can make all of this relate to the importance of State-controlled healthcare and the need for prohibiting drilling for offshore oil too, while they’re at it.
I’m repulsed and outraged. They’re not even buried yet.
Sarah, my thoughts exactly. The conservatives are not blameless, by a sight, but the pure hated of the left is astounding. See here: http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/ And of course it is reciprocated to our shame. These things take on a life of their own and you can’t call them back.
I think that you are protesting too loudly. People are looking for answers in time of grief. They are desperate for some explanation.
If you want to see hate go to some right wing web sites you will be sickened.
George Will has a no more logical explanation than Glenn Beck.
Tone down the rhetoric until we catch our breaths.
The following is a quote from Rush Limbaugh. I leave it to you and your conscience to defend it.
What Mr. Loughner knows is that he has the full support of a major political party in this country. He’s sitting there in jail. He knows what’s going on, he knows that…the Democrat party is attempting to find anybody but him to blame. He knows if he plays his cards right, he’s just a victim. He’s the latest in a never-ending parade of victims brought about by the unfairness of America…this guy clearly understands he’s getting all the attention and he understands he’s got a political party doing everything it can, plus a local sheriff doing everything that they can to make sure he’s not convicted of murder – but something lesser.
On another blog where a similar discussion has popped up and a (presumably) liberal poster blamed Sarah Palin for this insanity I posted the following in reply.
[blockquote] Charles,
I have been warning about the dangerous tendency to extremism in our politics for several years now. But please. Let’s not blame the TP or Palin for this. I may loathe her but she had nothing to do with this tragedy. It was the act of a deeply disturbed young man with more issues than Time Magazine. To the extent that he has articulated a coherent political thought he appears to be a radical lefty, not a right-winger. And while the MSM generally has a hear no evil see no evil policy when it comes to extremist invective from the political left, trust me it exists. The founder of the Daily KOS had his own map up with GOP targets in crosshairs not too long ago. And while it got no reporting in the MSM it was Dem Congressman Paul Kanjorski who suggested putting GOP Governor (then candidate) Rick Scott up against a wall and shooting him. Nor is the head of New Jersey’s Civil Service Union a radical right-winger. Yet in an email he urged his union members to “pray for the death” of New Jersey’s Republican Governor. So please spare us the sanctimonious “it’s the evil right wingers fault” BS. There have been and may well be again genuine instances of right-wing terrorism. But this ain’t one of them.[/blockquote]
You are right #6. As a paleo-conservative, leaning libertarian, kind of guy, I don’t care for Bush or Palin. However, if you want to see a liberal go nuts, just mention them. The invective and anger will flow. Suddenly, the left is all about civil discourse. I am so sick of political hacks, Democrat and Republican, that only get outraged about something when the other side does it.
I live in the Atlanta area. I sometimes drive to Florida. I defy anyone to find a liberal talk show host anywhere in that 600 mile journey. I have not found any.
My point. Right wing hate radio is almost a monopoly in America. If movies can be dangerous what about talk radio.
The coarsening of our language and political discussion is tragic
Hey, swac, it’s called the free market. If a liberal talk show host had anything to say that anyone wanted to listen to, their show would be doing fine. Air America showed the paucity and vulgarity of the “left” in this country, and most listeners said “no thanks.”
I think I understand “free market’ is the new religion. Could you give me a biblical reference.
It seems to me that the explicit violence portrayed on regular television mystery shows could be more of an influence towards violence than political talk shows.
A few minutes after I had seen the news about the shootings in Tucson I flipped the channel and saw a man being wrapped in heavy chains so the body could be disposed of in a river, other shows portrayed extremely violent acts also, so I just kept flipping channels until I got to CNN and Fox News where things were much less violent.
It makes as much sense to blame anyone other than the (alleged!) shooter as it does to blame global climate change. Can I break the law and start pinning the responsibility on a celebrity I’ve never met several thousand miles away?
“People are looking for answers in time of grief. They are desperate for some explanation”.
Start with a man, most likely severely mentally ill and detached from reality–attributing his actions to, basically, “a vitriolic, nationwide bipartisanship” is sensational, foolhardy, and irresponsible.
Dr. Will has a good point re: bagging the armchair sociology. And I also, for the record, find Limbaugh’s comments irresponsible.
“I defy anyone to find a liberal talk show host anywhere in that 600 mile journey”.
In the spirit of responsibility I won’t point out the obvious about the mainstream media. How many people do you know who need what they’ve already got?
[blockquote] And I also, for the record, find Limbaugh’s comments irresponsible. [/blockquote]
Ditto. Limbaugh is demagogue.
Ugg
is a* demagogue…
I have hoped to discover a discussion along the way of our failure to understand and address the difficulties of all mental illness in America. While the Congressmen were trying to think of ways of spending more money on themselves, we continue to have streets full of homeless mentally ill. The police want nothing to do with them. The hospitals want nothing to do with them. Citizens fear being sued by them if they do anything. It is a monumental mess which the media has dropped the ball in discussing here.
The discussion has been absurd and dishonest beyond words. ‘Target’ has been a political metaphor for as long as there has been democratic competition for seats. *Everyone* has used it, and noone ever thought twice about it. ‘Battle’ and ‘fight’ are other common words. Nobody ever saw these as incitements to violence.
Only a profoundly stupid person – a dishonest one – would see thigns differently.
The ‘politics of personal destruction’ is another matter, and not just confined to the Chicago School.
Swac,
Radio? This is 2011. Check out the political hack blogs, youtube videos, etc, and you will find vitriol among left and right. Given the killer’s age, I doubt he even listened to radio that much.
RE: “I defy anyone to find a liberal talk show host anywhere in that 600 mile journey.”
Heh — there’s a reason for that.
RE: “Right wing hate radio . . . ”
BS.
In the little I’ve heard of Rush this week, he’s been [i]right on and dead-accurate.[/i]
The only difference between pre-Rush days and now is that we finally have a guy who’s willing to point out the grotesque and tawdry display of the liberal activists in this country. And it is indeed grotesque. Thank God that somebody’s able to say it out loud, and in front of millions who agree with him. Otherwise, we’d have all been left to think that the likes of Move-On was the norm.
RE: “People are looking for answers in time of grief. They are desperate for some explanation.”
No. Liberal activists are trying to make a little hay off of dead murdered people.
That’s all.
Sick. I’ve hardly every been so revulsed in my life.
And good for Rush in pointing it out, over and over and over again. I hope he continues throughout the week so that as many Americans can know what the repulsive liberal activists in this country are doing. Hopefully it will reveal — once again — the chasm between us.
And chasm there is. Nothing has been so illustrative of that chasm as this week’s charming activities and words by the left.
#11–I read recently that the average child in America sees 13,000 murders by his/her 18th birthday. But, of cousre Hollywood liberals have nothing to do with the culture of violence. #6–On Saturday I read 2 sources that said the killer had recently posted on Daily KOS, but have heard nothing since. I don’t know if that is being supressed or if it was incorrect. Anybody out there know?
David, I have also heard some things on the news that have not been picked up by the news media:
I heard on television that his friends said the killer was a dedicated Atheist but I have heard nothing since. I don’t know if that is being supressed or if it was incorrect. Anybody out there know?
“I have hoped to discover a discussion along the way of our failure to understand and address the difficulties of all mental illness in America”.
This is where I’ve tried to “go”, too, rather than painting the tragedy as the result of some sort of bipartisan culture war. That is not to say that the bipartisan culture war doesn’t exist.
Basically, like Sarah, I believe and agree that, at this point, trying to relate one to the other(especially for political gain or purposes) is not only wrong, it’s exceedingly exploitative and vulgar.
I also don’t necessarily believe Rush wrong; but, at the moment, it might be prudent to tone down the rhetoric a little, but that’s not his style. Sometimes I wish it were, because it might make him more effective.
#5
I find no fault with the Limbaugh quote. A bit of hyperbole here and there, but generally accurate. I also agree 100% with everything Sara said about the truly revolting hypocracy of the Left in this sorry episode.The level of hate directed at George W. Bush and Sarah Palin by the left has surpassed anything from the right. While there are no doubt fringe individuals and groups on the right who corss the line, the vitriol from the left comes from the political, media, and academic establishment, those same folks who are now sanctimoniously trumpeting about the need to restore civility.
If we are looking for a place to put blame, let’s start with a society that has decided the wide path is the way to go and too many organizations that claim to be churches keeping the weeds down so more and more people can utillize those wide paths. Want someone to slap – try Hollywood. You know, that holier than thou sanctimonous group that they have no responsibility for the violence and depravity from which they make their living. The same crowd that believes everyone in America should sacrifice, suffer, save, etc except them – of course. And finally, anyone who pushes the idea that each and every one of us is responsible for our own actions.
So what we can glean from this discussion is further confirmation the far right and the far left hate each other with passion. What that means for the country, I’m not sure; but I pray god will give us strenght and guidance. The nation is so tired of the fight.
MCPLAW, I don’t think you you would come to such a simplistic conclusion if you had really read George Will’s article and all of the posts in “this discussion”.