As a conservative-leaning Republican and an Episcopalian, I find this “in your face” poster offensive. I sincerely hope this is NOT an official poster. “Big tent” means there’s room for fundamentalists, too.
By the way, setting aside the point that defining oneself by what one is against is a miserable way to go through life, does anyone notice that the person on the left is lifting a martini glass? Advertising a denomination that has a huge problem with alcoholism in both the clergy and lay ranks? Does TEC think that is funny? (I recall one poster long ago on one of the websites contending that the orthodox US-global south relationships would not work because the US orthodox visiting in Africa would insist on drinking and the African hosts would be appalled. I’m pretty sure he was serious, and that he could not imagine an episcopalian that could not go without alcohol for a week. Very probably he didn’t know any that could.) Sad.
Wasn’t there a rule going around that it was impossible to parody a conservative? That no matter how extreme the send-up on the web someone would think the guy actually meant it?
I think we might have reached the same point for the other side. I’m *pretty* sure that this *has* to be a parody. But a little voice inside my head is going, “life imitating art?”
I assumed it was just some cutesy little thing that someone put up on Facebook and it caught on fire. I don’t think its an official advertisement. As least, I don’t see it anywhere on the national church websites.
I would imagine that it is either satirical or it originated as some marketing campaign at a parish somewhere, and not actually from the National Church.
It is Steven [i]Hayward[/i], a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, grills a mean rib-eye, and is an OK bowler (but rarely has the competition that would highlight this latter fact).
Is there any evidence of where the heck this abomination came from? Before I unjustly accuse anyone I would like to know exactly whom to blame. Is it The National Church, an out of control dioceses, some lame brained left wing nut case of a Priest that thought he was being cute or is it just some facebook spoof? I would like to see if anyone can actually verify the origin or approval of this ad.
No. 13, I have been searching. Nothing of it appears on the national website, so I doubt it is the National Church’s doing.
Seeing as a lot of my left leaning friends seem to be reposting it on facebook, I assume it originated there by some left leaning source, though I can’t track it down on Facebook as yet.
OK, I think I can prove it is a fake. The picture of the woman priest is from an older edition of an Ecclesiastical Vestment catalog that I have here on my desk. I thought the woman looked familiar.
Who knows if it a spoof or not. It seems fairly accurate as the face the TEC hierachy wishes to portray to the world [and the Communion for that matter] as The Gay Church, but it is not the real face of TEC:
There’s a really active Episcopal Church here in Virginia that has a great motto – even printed on T-Shirts shown being worn by parishioners on their website:
(Name of the church): “Fighting Sin Since 1610”.
I would be OK with this fundamental thing if instead it said:
“Resisting Dogmas Since 1549”
or “Embracing The Truth Since 1784”.
This poster seems to be made up by an ill-tempered person who needs to go on a retreat or get a new spiritual director.
As a relatively liberal independent, I also find this poster offensive: as bad as the one circulating several years ago: Jesus came to take away your sins, not your mind.
It’s also a complete falsehood. That’s what bothers me, that someone blithely believes the historical inaccuracy enough to confect this absurdity. Ignorance. Ugh.
I tell you what I noticed today – there is no mention of Christ and not a cross in sight save obliquely in the TEC shield. Sounds about TEC’s level – a church which has rejected its head and is doing its own thing.
Mr. Heyward’s piece doesn’t acknowledge even the possibility that this is a parody (something that seems apparent in about three seconds, max), but uses it instead to wax indignant. Isn’t that the real import of the post?
I don’t know if this is a hoax or not, but does any one remember the series of ads years ago where one of them had a picture of Henry VIII and said: “In a Church founded by a man with 6 wives, forgiveness goes without saying.” That was not a hoax.
This illustrates the ironic truth of Christopher Johnson’s “Law” (at MCJ) that no matter how ridiculous an idea you can postulate about TEC, it’s impossible to attribute a far-fetched absurdity to TEC that isn’t soon proved all too true. The wackiness of TEC’s loony left is so extreme that it exceeds our feeble imaginations. This may be a sardonic cartoon caricature, but it’s completely recognizable caricature.
Sadly, most of my former colleagues in TEC are still stuck fighting past battles. My fellow Boomer clergy tend to idealize the “glory days” back in the late 1960s, and to see every cultural conflict through the lens of their (distorted, nostalgic) memory of the Civil Rights era. Especially here in the Southeast, the so-called “Bible Belt,” TEC leaders, ordained and lay, like to think that they represent the “intelligent” “thinking” Christians, in stark contrast with the ignorant, uncouth masses of Fundies all around us. You’d think that the famous Scopes Trial was held just last year, not back in the mid 1920s.
Not the least problem with this sort of crude propaganda is that the meaning of “Fundamentalsim” is left conveniently to everyone’s imagination. It functions merely as a vague term of opprobrium, a broad swipe that doesn’t have to be defined because “everyone knows” what a Fundamentalist is. Namely, it’s everyone to the left of you. You know, it’s rather like the accusation of being a “Communist” in the Red-Scare, Sen. McCarthy era.
Even if a parody, this spoof hits the mark. Dead on target. So many leaders in TEC still delude themselves into thinking that Fundamentalists are the Enemy, the biggest obstacle to the progress of education, enlightened religion, and social justice, etc. They’re still trying to fight the battles of the 1920s or 1960s. The biggest obstacle to progress, that is, except for the Catholic Church, but that’s a problem for folks in the Northeast, not the South…
They seem to have overlooked the fact that the de-Christianization of American society has progresed far beyond what was true in the 20s or even the 60s. No, today, public enemy #1 isn’t “Fundamentalism” but Secularism and Relativism. In fact, if you take the term that follows in the classic sense in which John Henry (Cardinal) Newman meant it, I’d have no hesitation in saying the truth is the virtual opposite of this poster, whether a spoof or not.
Today, the main enemy of genuine Christianity isn’t Fundamentalism, but Liberalism. By that I don’t for one minute mean that theological conservatism necessarily entails political conservatism across the board, nor am I rejecting all liberal tendencies (e.g., I strongly favor WO and the value of modern biblical scholarship). What I’m talking about is an ideology, LiberalISM, as an ism, a worldview, the essence of which is to reject all dogmatism except its own. You know, Liberalism is rooted in the supposedly absolute and dogmatic truth that there are no absolutes or true dogmas, in either doctrine or morality. Everything is relative; nothing is absolute, except that absolute truth.
Yes, TEC is indeed “[i]Trendier than Thou[/i].” More so now than in 1978. And in a cynical, amoral, post-modern age, that amounts to TEC becoming a safe haven for everyone who is more cynical and “progressive” (=antinomian) than thou…
RE: “a parody (something that seems apparent in about three seconds, max) . . . ”
Um, yeh . . . which explains why all NOVA’s revisionist buddies are happily and proudly posting it everywhere on the Internet as representative of TEC.
8:[blockquote]Wasn’t there a rule going around that it was impossible to parody a conservative? That no matter how extreme the send-up on the web someone would think the guy actually meant it?[/blockquote]
This advertisement is what is known as a “suspected Poe”, in reference to Poe’s Law, which says:
[i]Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won’t mistake for the real thing.[/i]
Wiki article [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe’s_law#cite_note-tele-1]here[/url].
As far as I no, No. 29, none of my “buddies” are “revisionist” (the term has a more distinct meaning to you than it does to me, but whatever it means, I am quite sure I am not one) and none of them is “proudly posting” this little, mildly amusing satirical confection “everywhere on the Internet.” Perhaps you could be more specific.
Is there really any evidence that 815 put this thing out?
I thought this was a spoof.
Isn’t it?
If not — the revisionists are less apt at marketing than I could have ever ever imagined in my wildest dreams. No wonder their parishes are tanking.
I’d like to see them disavow this thing, but I won’t be a bit surprised if they don’t.
As a conservative-leaning Republican and an Episcopalian, I find this “in your face” poster offensive. I sincerely hope this is NOT an official poster. “Big tent” means there’s room for fundamentalists, too.
By the way, setting aside the point that defining oneself by what one is against is a miserable way to go through life, does anyone notice that the person on the left is lifting a martini glass? Advertising a denomination that has a huge problem with alcoholism in both the clergy and lay ranks? Does TEC think that is funny? (I recall one poster long ago on one of the websites contending that the orthodox US-global south relationships would not work because the US orthodox visiting in Africa would insist on drinking and the African hosts would be appalled. I’m pretty sure he was serious, and that he could not imagine an episcopalian that could not go without alcohol for a week. Very probably he didn’t know any that could.) Sad.
Surely, it’s a fake.
Surely.
It’s very well done.
Surely, a fake…
A+ for truth in advertising.
Wasn’t there a rule going around that it was impossible to parody a conservative? That no matter how extreme the send-up on the web someone would think the guy actually meant it?
I think we might have reached the same point for the other side. I’m *pretty* sure that this *has* to be a parody. But a little voice inside my head is going, “life imitating art?”
I assumed it was just some cutesy little thing that someone put up on Facebook and it caught on fire. I don’t think its an official advertisement. As least, I don’t see it anywhere on the national church websites.
Just sitting back waiting for TEC to deny that its authentic. It hasn’t happened yet, but maybe soon … surely even 815 aren’t this stupid?
I would imagine that it is either satirical or it originated as some marketing campaign at a parish somewhere, and not actually from the National Church.
It is Steven [i]Hayward[/i], a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, grills a mean rib-eye, and is an OK bowler (but rarely has the competition that would highlight this latter fact).
Is there any evidence of where the heck this abomination came from? Before I unjustly accuse anyone I would like to know exactly whom to blame. Is it The National Church, an out of control dioceses, some lame brained left wing nut case of a Priest that thought he was being cute or is it just some facebook spoof? I would like to see if anyone can actually verify the origin or approval of this ad.
No. 13, I have been searching. Nothing of it appears on the national website, so I doubt it is the National Church’s doing.
Seeing as a lot of my left leaning friends seem to be reposting it on facebook, I assume it originated there by some left leaning source, though I can’t track it down on Facebook as yet.
OK, I think I can prove it is a fake. The picture of the woman priest is from an older edition of an Ecclesiastical Vestment catalog that I have here on my desk. I thought the woman looked familiar.
I think people are missing the point. The question is not whether this is an “authorized” advertisement. It’s whether or not it is accurate.
Who knows if it a spoof or not. It seems fairly accurate as the face the TEC hierachy wishes to portray to the world [and the Communion for that matter] as The Gay Church, but it is not the real face of TEC:
Happy smiley face of TEC
The real face of TEC
Need I go on?
There’s a really active Episcopal Church here in Virginia that has a great motto – even printed on T-Shirts shown being worn by parishioners on their website:
(Name of the church): “Fighting Sin Since 1610”.
I would be OK with this fundamental thing if instead it said:
“Resisting Dogmas Since 1549”
or “Embracing The Truth Since 1784”.
This poster seems to be made up by an ill-tempered person who needs to go on a retreat or get a new spiritual director.
This has to be a hoax. The sad thing is, you can’t tell any more. Somebody put me in the United Church of Christ Ejector Seat. . . .
As a relatively liberal independent, I also find this poster offensive: as bad as the one circulating several years ago: Jesus came to take away your sins, not your mind.
#20 Dan Crawford–As V.P. Dan Quayle once put it, mis-quoting the United Negro College Fund motto: “What a waste it is to lose one’s mind.” 🙂
It’s also a complete falsehood. That’s what bothers me, that someone blithely believes the historical inaccuracy enough to confect this absurdity. Ignorance. Ugh.
#22–As a proud Fundamentalist (in the Gresham Machen / Princeton Theological Seminary meaning of the term), I completely agree!
The person can’t be that ignorant of history , Fundamentalism has not came about in the Christian Church until early 20th century
I tell you what I noticed today – there is no mention of Christ and not a cross in sight save obliquely in the TEC shield. Sounds about TEC’s level – a church which has rejected its head and is doing its own thing.
Mr. Heyward’s piece doesn’t acknowledge even the possibility that this is a parody (something that seems apparent in about three seconds, max), but uses it instead to wax indignant. Isn’t that the real import of the post?
I don’t know if this is a hoax or not, but does any one remember the series of ads years ago where one of them had a picture of Henry VIII and said: “In a Church founded by a man with 6 wives, forgiveness goes without saying.” That was not a hoax.
This illustrates the ironic truth of Christopher Johnson’s “Law” (at MCJ) that no matter how ridiculous an idea you can postulate about TEC, it’s impossible to attribute a far-fetched absurdity to TEC that isn’t soon proved all too true. The wackiness of TEC’s loony left is so extreme that it exceeds our feeble imaginations. This may be a sardonic cartoon caricature, but it’s completely recognizable caricature.
Sadly, most of my former colleagues in TEC are still stuck fighting past battles. My fellow Boomer clergy tend to idealize the “glory days” back in the late 1960s, and to see every cultural conflict through the lens of their (distorted, nostalgic) memory of the Civil Rights era. Especially here in the Southeast, the so-called “Bible Belt,” TEC leaders, ordained and lay, like to think that they represent the “intelligent” “thinking” Christians, in stark contrast with the ignorant, uncouth masses of Fundies all around us. You’d think that the famous Scopes Trial was held just last year, not back in the mid 1920s.
Not the least problem with this sort of crude propaganda is that the meaning of “Fundamentalsim” is left conveniently to everyone’s imagination. It functions merely as a vague term of opprobrium, a broad swipe that doesn’t have to be defined because “everyone knows” what a Fundamentalist is. Namely, it’s everyone to the left of you. You know, it’s rather like the accusation of being a “Communist” in the Red-Scare, Sen. McCarthy era.
Even if a parody, this spoof hits the mark. Dead on target. So many leaders in TEC still delude themselves into thinking that Fundamentalists are the Enemy, the biggest obstacle to the progress of education, enlightened religion, and social justice, etc. They’re still trying to fight the battles of the 1920s or 1960s. The biggest obstacle to progress, that is, except for the Catholic Church, but that’s a problem for folks in the Northeast, not the South…
They seem to have overlooked the fact that the de-Christianization of American society has progresed far beyond what was true in the 20s or even the 60s. No, today, public enemy #1 isn’t “Fundamentalism” but Secularism and Relativism. In fact, if you take the term that follows in the classic sense in which John Henry (Cardinal) Newman meant it, I’d have no hesitation in saying the truth is the virtual opposite of this poster, whether a spoof or not.
Today, the main enemy of genuine Christianity isn’t Fundamentalism, but Liberalism. By that I don’t for one minute mean that theological conservatism necessarily entails political conservatism across the board, nor am I rejecting all liberal tendencies (e.g., I strongly favor WO and the value of modern biblical scholarship). What I’m talking about is an ideology, LiberalISM, as an ism, a worldview, the essence of which is to reject all dogmatism except its own. You know, Liberalism is rooted in the supposedly absolute and dogmatic truth that there are no absolutes or true dogmas, in either doctrine or morality. Everything is relative; nothing is absolute, except that absolute truth.
Yes, TEC is indeed “[i]Trendier than Thou[/i].” More so now than in 1978. And in a cynical, amoral, post-modern age, that amounts to TEC becoming a safe haven for everyone who is more cynical and “progressive” (=antinomian) than thou…
David Handy+
RE: “a parody (something that seems apparent in about three seconds, max) . . . ”
Um, yeh . . . which explains why all NOVA’s revisionist buddies are happily and proudly posting it everywhere on the Internet as representative of TEC.
This message is the unstated mission of my diocese. To provide an inclusive community for thinking people amid a sea of fundamentalists.
This message is the unstated mission of my diocese. To provide an inclusive community for thinking people amid a sea of fundamentalists.
8:[blockquote]Wasn’t there a rule going around that it was impossible to parody a conservative? That no matter how extreme the send-up on the web someone would think the guy actually meant it?[/blockquote]
This advertisement is what is known as a “suspected Poe”, in reference to Poe’s Law, which says:
[i]Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won’t mistake for the real thing.[/i]
Wiki article [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe’s_law#cite_note-tele-1]here[/url].
The joke is on the progressives then if they are spreading this one around.
I think this must be the work of some genius conservative to expose the revisionists for all to see.
98% sure that the woman priest is Mthr. Michelle Childs, preaching at an SCP Mass at Trinity College Chapel in Toronto… not an Episcopalian…
As far as I no, No. 29, none of my “buddies” are “revisionist” (the term has a more distinct meaning to you than it does to me, but whatever it means, I am quite sure I am not one) and none of them is “proudly posting” this little, mildly amusing satirical confection “everywhere on the Internet.” Perhaps you could be more specific.
#31, don’t you mean “To provide an exclusive community for drinking people amid a sea of fundamentalists”?
RE: “Perhaps you could be more specific.”
No need — everybody with whom I’m interested — and also you — doesn’t need any more specificity since they’re quite aware of what I’m speaking.
RE: 32, that was what I was thinking of, thanks.
I wonder if we could call this a “suspected TEC”?