This is absurd. Who’s going to get excited about some community service organization which merely does nice things? The author goes on to say that the world will judge us on how we in the TEC treat each other. Recalling Mrs Schori’s abusive and vindictive behavior to the “little people” and their parishes and dioceses, the author’s falsity and the utter hypocrisy of it all makes me want to scream.
It got me wondering, what is the overhead for the Rotary International compared to The Episcopal Church? Compare and contrast with other mainline denominations as they come to mind.
I think service can be connected with mission, but they are two different things.
I can appreciate y’unses (#1 and #2 above) skeptical assumptions about anything appearing on the ENS webpage. I look in vain for a reference to something Episcopalians do that ONLY makes sense if you serve a crucified Savior and are animated by the Holy Spirit.
But you would almost think from the foregoing remarks that there’s something intrinsically wrong with feeding programs, service to people with AIDS, or a hospice program. It’s not such bad news that Episcopalians are engaged in doing things other than suing each other and getting caught in sexual misconduct– the only “church topics” that seem to make news in our local papers.
#4–Chuck; but here’s the thing. When I got back from GC 2003, being very critical about what had happened, another lay deputy said to me “We did 1,000 things at General Convention, and all you want to do is talk about one bad thing when the other 999 were good.” There is nothing wrong with any of those ministries, but bad theology trumps them all. Being the United Way in vestments does not cut it. I will say, I hope Fr. Pogue is also a major evangelist.
The real way “Unapologetically Episcopalian” came into being was that there is something that needs to be apologized for when trying to explain this denomination to outsiders.
So why are they “unapologetic”? Are they, by choosing such a title admitting that there is a problem?
Nope.
Those who deny that anything heretical or sinful is going on, or who re-vision what once was considered sinful to be a blessing, feel that they have nothing to apologize for.
UP’s got it right. The point of “Unapologetically Episcopalian” is to do some public relations in support of a national church that’s infested by heretical corrupt incompetent leaders . . . which is something that they’re just fine with, hence the lack of apology.
I’ll probably join the organization that titles itself “Joyful Episcopalians Despite Our Corrupt, Heretical, Incompetent National Leaders.”
The acronym, Sarah, is JEDOCHINL. We could do that. There is a lot of stuff Episcopalians do that is truly good. Problem is, in some cases, the doers of them have lost sight of the mandate that all be done to the glory of God. To borrow a line from Bp Ed Salmon, How are we bringing Jesus into the good things we do? Is he front and center? If not, then it’s not being done for his glory. And that’s where we’re dropping the ball (or should I say, the cross?)
The comments on this blog are very sad to observe. Can’t somebody – anybody – admit that TEC (and all it’s members) are not exactly all satanic? Can’t some commentator at least take the time to look at Fr Ron Pogue’s little FB page and see that it is not TEC political? Can’t somebody out there see that maybe someone is nourished to read a prayer and sing a hymn or listen to an anthem? Take the time, and you might find that it isn’t all that different from Kendall’s little magazine.
Ian+, well said. That is the nub of the problem. TEC does much, but not for God’s glory.
Adding to David Keller’s excellent response to Pastor Chuckie at #4, of course all of these things are good: AIDS care, healthy aging programs, hospitals etc. But they can be done by anyone – you don’t have to be Christian, heck, you don’t even have to be religious in any sense, to do these things.
TEC claims to be a Christian church, and it does so hypocritically, because of the actions of its leadership who deny the gospel, and because of the inaction of many clergy and laity who let the leaders do so. All the social programs in the world can’t “balance” that.
In all humility, I must say that some of you folks think that you are doing God a big favor by being “Christians” or “continuing Anglicans.” You cannot “save” the faith. God IS working. Look to your own souls and not to that of the Episcopal Church. Which do you love more, Christ or “conservatism”?
[blockquote] But you would almost think from the foregoing remarks that there’s something intrinsically wrong with feeding programs, service to people with AIDS, or a hospice program. [/blockquote]
Where would you almost read that? I take Jesus’s parable of the Good Samaritan quite seriously and I would hope that is reflected in my post. Perhaps not reflects as well, though, I also believe that the Church catholic takes Jesus’s statement that we are to teach repentance to all persons and baptise the penitent in the names of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is the Church’s mission; while all mankind is expected by God to care for the physical needs of His mortal creation, Christians are called to service of the eternal soul also.
That’s what I find missing this and similar lists of good deeds done by churches. Was anyone freed from bondage to sin? Was anyone told of the grace of the Father through the blood of the Son? Do we only half love our neighbor?
I confess that I often settle for the here and now and forget the eternal. May God forgive me for those times and bless the person I served with a better servant than I.
This is absurd. Who’s going to get excited about some community service organization which merely does nice things? The author goes on to say that the world will judge us on how we in the TEC treat each other. Recalling Mrs Schori’s abusive and vindictive behavior to the “little people” and their parishes and dioceses, the author’s falsity and the utter hypocrisy of it all makes me want to scream.
It got me wondering, what is the overhead for the Rotary International compared to The Episcopal Church? Compare and contrast with other mainline denominations as they come to mind.
I think service can be connected with mission, but they are two different things.
How quaint of Mr. Pogue to quote St. Paul.
I can appreciate y’unses (#1 and #2 above) skeptical assumptions about anything appearing on the ENS webpage. I look in vain for a reference to something Episcopalians do that ONLY makes sense if you serve a crucified Savior and are animated by the Holy Spirit.
But you would almost think from the foregoing remarks that there’s something intrinsically wrong with feeding programs, service to people with AIDS, or a hospice program. It’s not such bad news that Episcopalians are engaged in doing things other than suing each other and getting caught in sexual misconduct– the only “church topics” that seem to make news in our local papers.
Pax,
Chuck Bradshaw
Hulls Cove, Maine
#4–Chuck; but here’s the thing. When I got back from GC 2003, being very critical about what had happened, another lay deputy said to me “We did 1,000 things at General Convention, and all you want to do is talk about one bad thing when the other 999 were good.” There is nothing wrong with any of those ministries, but bad theology trumps them all. Being the United Way in vestments does not cut it. I will say, I hope Fr. Pogue is also a major evangelist.
The real way “Unapologetically Episcopalian” came into being was that there is something that needs to be apologized for when trying to explain this denomination to outsiders.
So why are they “unapologetic”? Are they, by choosing such a title admitting that there is a problem?
Nope.
Those who deny that anything heretical or sinful is going on, or who re-vision what once was considered sinful to be a blessing, feel that they have nothing to apologize for.
A better term would be “Prideful Episcopalians”.
Or maybe “Shameless”.
UP’s got it right. The point of “Unapologetically Episcopalian” is to do some public relations in support of a national church that’s infested by heretical corrupt incompetent leaders . . . which is something that they’re just fine with, hence the lack of apology.
I’ll probably join the organization that titles itself “Joyful Episcopalians Despite Our Corrupt, Heretical, Incompetent National Leaders.”
A more apropos title for the fan page might be: “Unrepentant Episcopalians”.
The acronym, Sarah, is JEDOCHINL. We could do that. There is a lot of stuff Episcopalians do that is truly good. Problem is, in some cases, the doers of them have lost sight of the mandate that all be done to the glory of God. To borrow a line from Bp Ed Salmon, How are we bringing Jesus into the good things we do? Is he front and center? If not, then it’s not being done for his glory. And that’s where we’re dropping the ball (or should I say, the cross?)
Pog ma thoin!
The comments on this blog are very sad to observe. Can’t somebody – anybody – admit that TEC (and all it’s members) are not exactly all satanic? Can’t some commentator at least take the time to look at Fr Ron Pogue’s little FB page and see that it is not TEC political? Can’t somebody out there see that maybe someone is nourished to read a prayer and sing a hymn or listen to an anthem? Take the time, and you might find that it isn’t all that different from Kendall’s little magazine.
Ian+, well said. That is the nub of the problem. TEC does much, but not for God’s glory.
Adding to David Keller’s excellent response to Pastor Chuckie at #4, of course all of these things are good: AIDS care, healthy aging programs, hospitals etc. But they can be done by anyone – you don’t have to be Christian, heck, you don’t even have to be religious in any sense, to do these things.
TEC claims to be a Christian church, and it does so hypocritically, because of the actions of its leadership who deny the gospel, and because of the inaction of many clergy and laity who let the leaders do so. All the social programs in the world can’t “balance” that.
In all humility, I must say that some of you folks think that you are doing God a big favor by being “Christians” or “continuing Anglicans.” You cannot “save” the faith. God IS working. Look to your own souls and not to that of the Episcopal Church. Which do you love more, Christ or “conservatism”?
[blockquote] But you would almost think from the foregoing remarks that there’s something intrinsically wrong with feeding programs, service to people with AIDS, or a hospice program. [/blockquote]
Where would you almost read that? I take Jesus’s parable of the Good Samaritan quite seriously and I would hope that is reflected in my post. Perhaps not reflects as well, though, I also believe that the Church catholic takes Jesus’s statement that we are to teach repentance to all persons and baptise the penitent in the names of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is the Church’s mission; while all mankind is expected by God to care for the physical needs of His mortal creation, Christians are called to service of the eternal soul also.
That’s what I find missing this and similar lists of good deeds done by churches. Was anyone freed from bondage to sin? Was anyone told of the grace of the Father through the blood of the Son? Do we only half love our neighbor?
I confess that I often settle for the here and now and forget the eternal. May God forgive me for those times and bless the person I served with a better servant than I.
I’m curious. What exactly (strictly from this piece) are the problems with Father Ron Pogue’s page. Specifically. Anybody? Kendall?