Jesus was saying that the old laws are wrong. (I believe there were 864 such laws, including killing of unruly children). If the churches are following the Bible, how many have stoned any adulterers in their congregations lately?
He never directly preached on the gay syndrome, which is too bad. I am proud of the Episcopal Church selecting a woman as the Presiding Bishop and selecting a Bishop on his ability, even though he is an open and practicing gay. They are abiding by the American documents that state “All men are created equal.” The gay people are created in the same way the so-called straight people are, and we are all supposedly created in God’s image. If God got it wrong with some people, by other people’s standards, go fight with God. I personally feel that it is just too easy for the majority to gang up on a small portion of the people.
I also realize that a couple of Timothy and Paul’s epistles talk against gays, but they certainly were not proofread by Jesus since he was dead. Those epistles were selected from many by people 2,000 years ago and who knows what their agenda was.
Very simply, if you want to call yourself a Christian, follow the teachings of Jesus.
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UPDATE:
Matt Kennedy has written an excellent article in response for his parish newsletter (the paper where the op-ed appears is their local paper). MUST READING!
[blockquote] If the churches are following the Bible, how many have stoned any adulterers in their congregations lately? [/blockquote]
This is the thinnest of straw men, not even worthy of cranial reinforcement by the maven of Oz. His straw man cannot stand up, and neither can his argument, which tentatively proposes that we are [blockquote] supposedly [/blockquote] created in the image of God.
What part of “Go and SIN no more” don’t these people understand? Reappraisers are worse at proof text than fundamentalists could ever be. Not one jot or tittle shall pass away.
This is the second article tonight that has shown abysmal ignorance of the New Testament. Are these folk illiterate? Can they not read their Bibles?
Marcion is alive and being made very welcome in the Episcopal Church.
“who knows what their agenda was”
Who indeed? Well, the Patristic Fathers wrote at length on what should and should not include as canonical parts of the bible, and that conversation continued into the Reformation.
http://www.ccel.org is a pretty good site for anyone interested in more than glib insinuation.
The author might like to consider the analysis of Jesus’ teaching produced by the atheist supporters of gay rights.
[blockquote] “Thus, the prudery and puritanism which has characterised the Church’s attitude to sex from the earliest times can be traced back directly to Jesus himself, and the baleful worship of virginity, celibacy and sexual abstinence which has flourished throughout Christian history is all there in germ in the Gospels.†[/blockquote]
The full version is worth reading and can be found here
http://www.galha.org/briefing/jesus.html
When are we going to realize that the coming schism is NOT about gays – this was only the straw that broke the camel’s back. BUT about whether Christ is the ONE and ONLY way to redemption. When I am in danger of being led astray by the leadership of an ‘organisation’, it is time for me to leave – which is what I have done.
Who is the author of this piece? Does anyone know of him? LM
“I also realize that a couple of Timothy and Paul’s epistles talk against gays, but they certainly were not proofread by Jesus since he was dead.”
Jesus is dead? When did this happen? and WHY DIDN’T ANYONE TELL ME? And who the heck appeared to St. Paul on the road to Damascus?
This is so wrong it’s hard to know where to start. And we cannot make the assumption that he is using words in the same way that orthodox Christianity understands them. As Les Fairfield says, to paraphrase, “They have kept the language of historical Christianity and changed the meanings without telling anyone.” So the first thing to do in any response is to make sure that we are talking the same language.
To start, Jesus never said that the old laws were wrong. Just where does he thinks that the Summary of the Law comes from?
Perhaps Mr. Lane will preach on the 18th chapter of Leviticus and tell us which of your close relatives you can marry (vss. 6-13). Perhaps he can tell us about family relationships that include sex (vss. 14-18). Perhaps he can expound on the joys of beastiality (vs. 23).
And then there’s this:
21. You shall not offer any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the LORD.
But wait! I’m going to bet he’s pro-choice, so he’s already abrogated this law and is living in the glorious freedom of Christ!
#9 Samh–You have hit the core of the division between 815 2d Avenue’s social “gospel” and core Christianity. Niether you nor I would ever use the phrase, in any conceivable context, that Jesus is dead. I suspect Mr. Lane was being flippant, but the statement reveals all I need to know about his argument.
#8, I don’t know him, but sadly (and unsurprisingly) he claims to have been a superintendent of the Sunday school.
Without a doubt, one of the most idiotic things ever posted here.
The very sad thing here is not the lack of any substantive reasoning by the author, but rather that there are large numbers of “Christians” who would agree.
Yes, Ralph, there are many who call themselves Christians who would agree, particularly in pecusa. This just shows the level of biblical illiteracy we are dealing with in our churches.
Is it possible that this is Mary Strange in drag? Could this be?
This too is piffle. Why publish it? It doesn’t deserve attention. LM
I am wondering if this is a “slap back” at the accusations that many in TEC are not really Christians, as in believing the creeds, etc.
[blockquote]I truthfully feel that the first thing those who withdraw do is stop calling themselves Christian. If they call themselves Christian, they declare they are followers of that fellow Jesus, whom we call Christ.[/blockquote]
I think the reappraisers are now fighting back against the “not really Christian” accusation with the inhibition of Redding and now this.
I think they are in defensive mode on this now.
Jesus is not dead. The Lord is risen! He is alive. Where did this guy come from, philosophy class?
Hey – Larry Morse, the woman’s name is ‘Stange’ (not English) not ‘Strange’ (English).
And has anyone else noted that Donald Lane seems to think Timothy wrote 1 & 2 Timothy? Has he read them?
William S[trange]
[i]And has anyone else noted that Donald Lane seems to think [b]Timothy[/b] wrote 1 & 2 Timothy? [/i]
I missed that the first time around! 🙄
Ah for the good ol days.
Bell + Book + Candle
I have to wonder why something so stupid has attracted 25 separate comments????? :^>
In faith, Dave
Viva Texas
#22. Well it SHOULD be Strange, so there, so there.
Larry
This is the TEC teaching that to be a Christian is to follow Jesus as an ethical teacher and example. This is not what the Apostles (or Jesus) taught us.
Glad to see someone has caught that this “long-time Episcopalian” thinks that Timothy wrote the letters to Timothy. Another Biblical illiterate holding forth as an expert on God’s Word. And he was an Episcopalian Sunday School superintendent, no less.
Open the entire piece and read the comments left by the paper’s readers. They pretty much cover it all.
In answer to Margaret in posting #3: No, Margaret, they haven’t the time!