“But I am influenced heavily by the impact on relationships-relationship within The Episcopal Church and relationships within the Anglican Communion, if we act now rather than acting AFTER the Pittsburgh Convention has its second reading on the proposed constitutional change. To be sure, there will be a price to be paid whether abandonment is determined now or then-but I think the cost will be considerably higher if we are seen to act precipitously. There is a matter of “good will”, of mercy, as well as justice, which I consider relevant.
“Yes, Duncan intends to abandon within the meaning of the canon-no doubt in my mind whatsoever. But I think the finding of abandonment will be viewed as less unacceptable, less unfavorably, if the diocesan convention has acted the necessary two times, rather than just one. I also believe that we should put the ball back in Duncan’s court-let the decision be his, not ours.
“I also consider it important that we attempt as much as possible to separate what we think and feel about Bob Duncan (and others considering similar moves) from the greater good of Christ’s mission and Church-that is, separate personalities from what, by God’s grace, we can do to promote more effectively both the mission AND the unity of the Church.
“I am anxious to hear the thoughts and opinions of others, but this is where I am at the moment. I am not compelled, or even impelled-but I am inclined to vote no on a finding of abandonment now, and to vote yes on any effort to suspend action until after the Pittsburgh convention acts.
There has been no question that this Bishop has intended to leave TEC.
The question is whether it was NECESSARY to depose him, or whether this was an act of vengeance. Wouldn’t it have been “nicer” to pass a resolution 1) thanking him for his work in the church, 2) urging him to stay on in a time of crisis, 3) bidding him farewell if he must leave, 4) keeping him on the roll of the HOB regardless of his decision, and 5) inviting him to return when his conscience permits it?
Clearly, KJS and some of our other bishops are not healers. Clearly, they are not behaving as if they were created in the image of God. God is not a despotic tyrant. The message is clear – my way or the highway.
Some say that this action has further torn the fabric of the Anglican Communion. Others note that the fabric has been torn, and this puts a match to it. I think this action makes creation of a second province inevitable. I think the title “Archbishop” would fit Bishop Duncan very well. My dark side smiles at the thought of his attending a future primates’ meeting alongside KJS…
Imagine what would have happened if bishops had deposed each other during the height of the War of Northern Aggression!
He seems to be talking to himself. I may be reading too much into this, but it doesn’t seem to be very focused, is circular and shows a great deal of conflict.
Bishop Henderson needs to be in our prayers.
This whole action seems to have little to do with Pittsburgh and a lot more to do with the threat of another Anglican province that is perhaps recognized by a majority of Primates around the world. I think statements about the unity of the church by Henderson and others have to be read in that reality. And yes, mousestalker, Henderson does seem to be conflicted.
There was never any danger that Bishop Duncan would attempt to stay in TEC and the HOB if the diocesan convention voted to leave. A mere sixteen days before the vote the HOB couldn’t let him simply leave, they had to kick him out. It has all the appearance of a spiteful purge of conservatives. This has been a public relations disaster for TEC. Here in Pittsburgh while the coverage has been mostly well-informed and fair it has completely reinforced the notion of TEC as a liberal church for gays. There has been an impressive outpouring of support for Bishop Duncan, ranging from Primates to the Roman Catholic bishop of Pittsburgh. Has there been anyone, anywhere, outside of the liberal Episcopalians, congratulating TEC for this wonderful course of action? None. There is only embarrassed silence.
He sees how very foolish the “deposition” was. It lays bare the vindictiveness, the fiction of the “big-tent” talk, the disregard for justice – a PR fiasco for the the TEO as noted. It only serves to galvanize the upcoming vote. The few conservatives in the “Across the table” organization have chosen thugs for bedmates.
House of Bishops Bar Association?!?!?! I’ll refrain from the snide remarks. I have a suspicion that the existance of such a group is near the heart of the problem. Do the Lutheran, Methodist or RC conference of bishops have their own Bar Association?
Mega-dittos to Anon. Layperson. Our Lady of Litigation has been malicious and vindictive towards traditional conservatives ever since she required Bp Lawrence (then bishop-elect) to under go a second psychological test. TEC (that’s “C” as in cult) is not driven by Scripture or, now given the fast re-write this week, even by it’s Constitution & Canons. The only driving force in this cult is the Presiding Bishops [u][b]agenda.[/u][/b]
[i] Comment deleted by elf. [/i]
Perhaps I should not be asking this on a Sunday morning, but my cynicism has had the best of me most of the time these last few days. According to all of the reports I have read to date, bishop Henderson originally voted yes, and only after the fact, voted no. He makes no mention of this in his letter, just that he “ultimately voted no.”
Are the reports that he changed his vote correct (the several lists I have seen of who voted which way also indicate this, and I assume they are taken from the minutes)? If so, it appears that he argued against it, then voted “yes” (which vote would have made it appear to his peers that he had been persuaded this was the correct course, and was therefore withdrawing his own argument- this indeed may have influenced swing votes), then AFTER the fate of Bishop Duncan was sealed, he changed his vote to “no” so that he could report back to his diocese as though he had stood firm against the canonical abuse, and the PR train wreck. And keep himself in the good graces of ++Gomez, +Lawrence, +Love and ++Anis.
I will pray for him, as I pray for all bishops and other ministers. But until this is cleared up, I won’t trust him. His letter has a BIG hole in it in terms of explaining, or even admitting, his actions. If the reports are in error, what is the truth in this matter?
[blockquote]House of Bishops Bar Association?!?!?! [/blockquote]
The third largest club within the HoB. Just behind the “The Roman Catholic Church was too strict so I became an Episcopal Bishop Benevolent Society” and of course, the largest club, which has gone from a membership of 1 to 88 in just 2 short years- [blockquote]The Katharine Jefferts Schori School of Theology Alumni Association[/blockquote]. Now, next April 1st, when the Stand Firm guys are printing up the diplomas and sending them to those 88 bishops, I want you to remember who coined that title.
OK, that is enough cynicism for one thread. My apologies.
This bishop is a deeply confused man. He is so hopelessly committed to the TEC institutional establishment that he is clueless as to what the basic theological issues are. This is what a “company man” looks like — plain and simple. He was once touted as a “Windsor Bishop.” What a joke that seems now. Is it true that this bishop voted “YES” to depose +Duncan BEFORE he voted “NO.” +Upper South Carolina has my prayers as a human being, but not my respect as a bishop of the Church of Christ. The TEC HOB is full of folks like this, but I find his hypocrisy especially offensive.
Sorry for this double post, but it just dawned on me. I wrote, “There has been no question that this Bishop has intended to leave TEC.”
The sad fact is that TEC has left him.
There is no love at 815 these days, only fear, rage and rebellion against God.
If one adds the digits of 815 one comes up with 12, the number of the church, but the individual digits tell another story. 8 is the number of Cain’s murder of his brother Abel. 1 is the number of unity. 5 is half of 10, which is the number of completeness. What this says is that 815 is an attempt to be the church through half-assed murder in the name of unity.
This is, of course, all numerological bullsh*t. But it’s fun, nonetheless.
To put it bluntly, as I am wont to do, the reaction of the rest of the primates of the Anglican Communion is about to come down on the ruling clique of The Episcopal Communion (“Church”) like stink on a skunk! Schori and Company will simply blow it off as if nothing happened, but I’m afraid they’re in for a rude shock.
Cennydd: I’m not holding my breath.
Nikolaus,
Me neither. 815 has done a fine job of ignoring the will of the Communion up until now, they will continue to do so even IF the Primates and +Cantur speak out.
As I have said before, I now refer to TEC as “The Episcopal Communion,” and for a good reason: That is exactly what they now are.
They have separated themselves from us, and all that is needed now is a formal declaration on their part. Yes, it’s true that they don’t care about what the Anglican Communion primates have to say, but at the same time, they keep insisting that they want to remain in communion with us.
Sorry, but they can’t have it both ways! They’re either FOR us or they’re AGAINST us! And if the latter is the case, they must formally leave.
If I recall correctly, Cennydd, the Episcopal Cult declared it’s own communion last year or in 2006. If I were better at internet research etc. I would give the link, but alas, I can’t. It was a subtle announcement to be sure, easily overlooked. But the message was quite clear that it is the communion of the [i]Episcopal[/i] Cult that matters not some historical moth-bag based in Jolly Olde England.
T here is something painfully funny about all of this whackafrazz over ++Duncan. First of all, Schori e al have no power to touch him, and he wants nothing to do with them. Behold, a tempest in a chalice, soound and fury signifying nothing. But how can I say “nothing” when there has been this unusual explosion of shock! shock! and hot air. But of course, that is precisely what I say “nothing,” for that it was all this Pumblechookery adds up to. Talk. No action. Just talk. And how much is TEC affected by talk? How is it possible that we babble on and on and no one has the courage or the spine to act? Where’s Gafcon? I hear it talking but what is it doing? Rail at Schori all you want. She is so far untouchable. She appears to have sized up her enemies accurately and found them impotent. Larry
Larry,
you sum it up nicely.
Well said.
Jim E. <><