In the week since, California has seen an outpouring of demonstrations ranging from quiet vigils to noisy street protests against Proposition 8, including rallies outside churches and the Mormon temple in Westwood as well as boycotts of some businesses that contributed to the Yes on 8 campaign.
Many of those activities have been organized not by political professionals and established leaders in the gay community, but by young activists working independently on Facebook and MySpace.
The grass-roots activism is a tribute to political organizing in the digital age, in which it is possible to mobilize thousands of people with a few clicks of a mouse. It has generated national attention — and set up a series of Saturday demonstrations that organizers hope will attract tens of thousands of people to city halls throughout California.
But the demonstrations also have raised questions about whether the in-your-face approach will alienate voters, who may be asked one day to approve gay marriage. Twice in the last eight years, voters have rejected it.
Angry protests (such as invading a church and distrupting the service or taking the cross out of the hands of an older woman and stomping on it) are so evidently self-defeating that I wonder if the goal of protesters is really to get people to vote for them or if the goal is to just protest and spew forth your hatred and anger.
I wonder if their (radical activitsts) real objective is to simply encourage the breakdown of society in general.
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
Well, in the case of that church up in Michigan, it’s plainly the latter, since they are self-described anarchists. As for some of the rest, I think you’re right–it’s just emotional outburst, without any thought to political consequences.
re Phillip Snyder: “breakdown of society”
>ding!< .... somebody give that man a kewpie doll. The destruction of our society by any means has been a stated goal of the left for decades. Just read some Bill Ayers for a start. By their works.....
Creedal,
Agree completely. That’s what I was told by an activist in CA when I was still serving in the Bishop’s office (ELCA) in Northern California: “Either this church recognizes our gifts for ministry or justice demands we burn it to the ground.”
If I were the pastor of one of these churches that were being protested, I would be ecstatic. When, I heard Saddleback “church†was being protested on Sunday, I thought what a great opportunity!!! I would have audio speakers in the parking lots and near the sidewalks where the protesters were located. I would bring in several revival preachers to preach the gospel to the “captive audience.†We would probably need a couple exorcists as well because of the deep bondage many of those people are dealing with. We’ll have a tank for baptisms and choirs singing in the background. What an opportunity these protesters are providing!!!!!
Vincent
[quote]I wonder if their (radical activitsts) real objective is to simply encourage the breakdown of society in general. [/quote]
I think there is a lot of truth to that. Herbert Marcuse for example believed we had to be ‘saved’ from Western Civilization via ‘polymorphous perversity.’
Well, now two Mormon churches (one in L.A. and one in S.L.C.) have received envelops filled with white powder. I guess they’re moving from protesting to domestic terrorism.
Vincent Lerins [#5]: Although you may have intended your comment with tongue in check, I’ll respond on the assumption that you meant it seriously.
The protests do offer opportunities for churches to reach out to the protestors. But we’d do better to follow the example of Christian colleges (including Gordon Conwell, as I recall) that offered protestors a gentle welcome.
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[i] When, I heard Saddleback “church†was being protested on Sunday, I thought what a great opportunity!!! [/i]
Fair enough.
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[i] I would bring in several revival preachers to preach the gospel to the “captive audience.†[/i]
Sounds like a nice way of saying you would blast the protestors with audio they’d find particularly odious.
[i] We would probably need a couple exorcists as well because of the deep bondage many of those people are dealing with. [/i]
Would you expect your stentorian revival preachers to be making converts? Would you exorcise the unwilling? Or would you deploy exorcists mainly to make a statement about the protesters?
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All in all, a very different approach than Rick Warren will probably take.
The people of California need to start a recall vote to get rid of Arnold. When the Governor of a state advocates that the “courts” override the will of the people in this matter, since they have TWICE voted this way, he is saying the people do not have enough intelligence to know what they need or that they are just plain wrong. Who died and annoited him as a saviour of California? The mickey mouse court there is the most liberal state court in the nation as is the 9th circuit court of appeals on the federal level. Maybe an earthquake will break california or at least San Francisco off so they can have their own fantasy island. Arnold needs to go and so do the members of their supreme court.
As for the proltestors, they are showing their true intentions, DO IT THEIR WAY OR ELSE. They do not believe in the domocracy that allows them or their like in William Ayers to live as free citizens. Maybe they need to go to Venezuela or Iran. Try this stuff there and you end up in an unmarked grave somewhere. But, since they are protected here, they want to tear down the very system that protects them. Go figure.
Eventually, someone is going to be injured in these demonstrations, and when that happens, the arrests will begin. If a demonstrator against Prop 8 injures an opponent, look for the lawsuits against the LBGT crowd to begin. Then the shoe will be on the other foot…..again.
FWIW, I am living in California and my thoughts are as follows:
1. Based on comments I have heard from certain co-workers, I feel confident that the “No on 8†protestors are now doing their side more harm then good. From what I can gather, there are two basic kinds of “No on 8†protestor. The first kind are the militant homosexuals who take part in the ActUp sort of protest. These are the ones who are engaged in the violence and Gay McCarthyism. The second kind are clued out hippie young people, who have been brainwashed over the last year into thinking that if they just stand in a circle chanting “yes we can†and thinking something is progressive, that it will just happen. This, for them, is their chance to get in on (what they think is) a civil rights struggle. The text messaging and other technology makes it easy for these people to gather.
The second group might have given the No side some successful PR, but the first group has nixed that. The public seems to have conflated the two groups, so that the protests of the second group bring to mind the violence of the first. My guess is that the second group of “No on 8†protestors need one more weekend and then they will lose interest.
2. Arnold Schwarzenegger is, without a doubt, a serious disappointment. Personally, I think he is positioning himself for a run at Senate when he is termed out as governor. He thinks that he will have the GOP vote locked down, and he is now trying to curry favor with Big Media and Democrat leaning voters. Schwarzenegger is nothing if not a panderer.
By the way, I mean U.S. Senate. There is some speculation that Diane Feinstein may step down and run for governor.
Irenaeus,
I was serious about my comments. Evangelizing them would be an excellent opportunity!! I’m sick and tired of Christians being “mamby-pamby.” We need to think out of the box and use opportunities God presents for us.
As for the exorcists, they will be needed. Many of the protesters are most likely under deep demonic bondage. You have to break the power of Satan’s influence!
-Vincent-
Amen, #9.
By the way – Nation-wide protests against Prop8 are planned for tomorrow, Nov. 15:
http://perpetuaofcarthage.blogspot.com/2008/11/coming-to-city-near-you.html
If attacks on churches escalates, churches may need to have people with video cameras and security personnel (armed vergers) as well as security cameras and silent alarms and, as Paula Loughlin said, ‘concealed carry’ for those who are licensed and qualified (bet they won’t try to hit any Texas churches).
But, what a shame….I remember when churches were never locked, so people could come in to pray 24/7.
I think the arrests are about to begin. The LBGT terrorists have shot themselves in the foot.
On the whole, I hope the protests escalate steadily, for obvious reasons. The radical disaster in the US economy is teaching many Baby Boomers and the children that a society built on excess is self destructive – excess in all senses of the word. As Americans rein in buying because the “plenty of Money” has turned into no money at all, there are may who are going to realize that it is they themselves who have created this disaster. Self-indulgence has had a major set-back on all fronts, and for that reason, the self-indulgent and semi-violent protests will find a resistance they would not have found before. L
No doubt the antics of the demonstrators will be totally ignored in the media which will rush to record the lofty whiningof those “victimized” by the majority.
#8
Iraneaus, it was Gordon College (the liberal arts college; Gordon Conwell is the the seminary just a few miles away). I believe Wheaton and Messiah also “gently welcomed” the Soulforce Riders, in contrast to many other Christian colleges.
There is some really typical liberal silliness here: African-American voters supported Prop 8 by wide margins and the protestors target … Mormons!
It’s probably a safe bet none of these protests are taking place in front of AME or National Baptist churches.
“Given that Prop 8 is a constitution amendment … an overturn via a vote will take a 2/3 majority”
Not so. Just as the electorate adopted Prop. 8 by majority vote, it can repeal it by majority vote.
Irenaeus is correct; only majority vote required.
Difficult to see how the CA Supreme Court could overturn a part of the CA Constitution as unconstitutional, unless by reference to the US Constitution, in which case this would go to the US Supreme Ct.
In an incredible irony, the Prop 8 post-mortem has attributed passage to Obama. The increase in black (70% yes) and Hispanic (57% yes) pushed 8 over the top. The Hispanic vote was actually surprisingly low. This may be attributable to language and a tendency to vote “No” on anything not understood.
The No on 8 folks ran a predictable “smear your opponents” campaign, now continuing in the demonstrations. Anyone supporting 8 was an automatic bigot, pretty much the same sort of tactics used in TEC. That creates a dilemma for the left given the large yes margins in the black and Hispanic blocs. The left has attempted to deal with this with a patronizing “They just don’t understand” rationale. But, at least among blacks there has been substantial resentment at gay activists’ attempts to equate the black and gay situations.
I find it all so sad. A woman writing an opinion piece, an “open letter to all her friends” in this week’s issue of the Cambrian, in Cambria, California, said she was denouncing her friendship with anyone who had voted for our state’s Proposition 8, aimed to change the state constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman. A restaurant in West Hollywood, California, owned by a Morman who gave $500 to the Yes on 8 campaign, is being aggressively boycotted, even though a decrease in revenue may cause several gay employees to lose their jobs. The hate and the bitterness in California is as intense as is today’s wildfire in Santa Barbara. I stand a bit shocked that the vote of the people is being ignored, and that such hate is being leveraged in the spirit of “tolerance.”
From a purely poliitical standpoint, gay marriage will not pass until is proponents understand that there are those who do not support gay marriage and, at the same time, do not hate gay men or women. One of the problems with the gay marriage lobby (and any self-described activists lobby) is that it tends to believe its own press. They tend to believe that anyone who disagrees with them is evil and hateful. This is simply not the case.
Until the gay marriage lobby comes to grips with reality – that many people don’t believe that the centruies old definition of marriage should be changed by the opinion of four or five people and that something as foundational to our society as marriage should not be changed lightly or quickly – then they cannot win the debate because they are starting from a false premise.
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
Here is a link to an article by a U.C. law professor:
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20081115/OPINION/811150328/1070?Title=LIU__The_next_verdict_on_Proposition_8
Vincent Lerins,
Huckabee showed the video of the protest where the elderly woman with the cross was shoved and yelled at and the cross stomped on. The news commentator on the clip he showed said “As you can see, there is a lot of hate on both sides of this issue!”
Huck said, “What hate on the ‘yes’ side? I only see hate on the ‘no’ side.”
If any Church responds in the way you suggest, you can be sure the media will report it as hate speech, harassment of the protestors and a violation of their civil rights; as well as characterizing the church leadership and membership as hate-mongering homophobes.
No, there is no way to come out on this one in a positive manner. The best way is to have people video tape it from the Church perspective and when accused of harassment, show the tape on youtube and say, “Here is proof to the contrary” or send it to FOX News.
Irenaeus’ plan, while not as satisfying, is perhaps a better alternative. Greet them with water, offer to pray with them, hand out Bibles (although they may be torn or burned as part of the protest), etc.
Peace
Jim Elliott <>< Florida