The announcement was kept under wraps until the last moment: The Vatican only announced Levada’s briefing Monday night, and Levada only flew back to Rome after finalizing the details at midnight.
The announcement was kept under wraps until the last moment: The Vatican only announced Levada’s briefing Monday night, and Levada only flew back to Rome after finalizing the details at midnight.
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Just wondering how this is different from what they have done in the past. Anybody know?
First, it’s world-wide. Second, the current pastoral provision places Anglican Use parishes under the local Latin Rite bishop (in some cases, “at his mercy” would be the correct phrasing). A separate authority structure, however it might work, is certainly a change.
What is the big deal? Catholicism still needs reformed!
http://www.churchoftheword.net
As does every other church – even those who consider themselves “reformed”. Unless of course Glendermott belongs to a perfect church.
The big deal is that while Anglican Church and ABC flounders in sea of indecision and without any apparent direction or vision, the Catholic Church just took action. If you are Anglo-Catholic and wondering what future you have in the Anglican Church this structure may be just what you have been waiting for to leave.
Just out of curiosity, wouldn’t this open the doors to certain men who wish to be priests in the Roman Church but wish also to marry to first join an Anglican church, and then upon attaining marriage and the ordination to transfer to the Roman Church? Did Rome just open up a run-around on the priest celibacy requirements while still maintaining that it’s own millennia-long protocol is the right course? A sort of “changing” of it’s requirements without her actually having to change her requirements?
Didymus –
Say one goes through the process to become an Episcopal minister. That’s a year or two in process, three years in seminary, a diaconal year, and, for show, a year or two in ministry. Then they have a process of joining the Catholic Church, probably a year, plus a couple more years of discernment and gaining the necessary permission from Rome. Then you have education and ordination. This is at least a 7 to 9 year process, all in the service of a deception. That strikes me as psychologically improbable, not to mention that someone given to deceptive practice is probably going to raise alarms in either the Episcopal or Catholic processes.
Plus, what’s the payoff? Catholic priests make little money, have little respect in society, and work long hours. In my parish, there is one priest for 1900 families (probably 4000-5000 souls). In fact, we have two young priests in our diocese who were Episcopalians and might have taken the path you describe. I’ve never heard either suggest it was even a remote possibility.
#7 I believe that end-around already exists in theory but not in practice. An RC who converts to another denominationin in order to marry and become a priest can always come back to Rome but they would not be considered for RC ordination whereas a cradle Anglican who marries and becomes priest would after their conversion to RC be considered eligible for that provision. Fr Cutie can always return to RC but only as a married layman while Bishop Steenson remains a married Catholic priest.
Or maybe you weren’t referring to liberal RC’s who advocate a married clergy. If so please excuse my presumptions.
Didymus, I would assume that the same rules would apply to an Anglican Rite that are already in force for other non-Latin Rite Catholic Churches. As I understand it, the priesthood in those rites is strictly limited to those men who have been born and raised in those churches, thus precluding any such end-runs around the celibacy requirement. Even under the current Pastoral Provision plan, Lutheran or Episcopal priests who had been previously baptized/confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church would not be eligible to transfer back in as married clergy.
I think that there may be a certain wistfulness among catholic clergy at this. It is lonely, not being allowed to marry, and I feel sorry for them.
I seriously doubt that any Episcopal priest in his right mind would wish to join the RCC for any other than the “right reasons”. The pay is low, the hours horrendous. You are at the mercy of your bishop at all times (and not all of them protect their priests). Two priests in my diocese were publically laicized abruptly after reportedly “betraying the bishop’s trust” with as best I can gather, an adult, unmarried woman. (I never knew either of them so I can’t comment).
I do not believe that if an Episcopal priest wished to become a Catholic priest that they would likely have any increase in their stipend in order to pay for wife and kids, (though I presume that if an Episcopal priest had a family and wished to join the RCC, his wife would work).
We have two priests for a parish of 15,000 (fifteen thousand). There 2 services (Spanish and English) on Saturday, and 6 on Sunday (Spanish, English and 1 Vietnamese). There is confession Saturday morning and Thursday evening in both Spanish and English (requiring both priests, because the lines are so long), there is young mens hanging out group (spanish and english) on monday, and adult mens discipleship something or other on Friday in both Spanish and English which they both run (I think it is fishing for vocations or something). There is mass Monday through Friday for the parish school, and a certain amount of teaching in the parish school (though they rotate), and there are marriages, baptisms, annointing of the sick and funerals multiple times a week. They do get some help in hospital visitation from lay folk and the parish school of religion, food bank, radio station, outreach to the poor and other ministries including bible study for teens, adults, converts, whatever etc is run by layfolk, a couple of elderly doddering deacons, the knights of columbus, lady setons guild, etc.
They are paid about 20,000 and have free housing, retirement and healthcare.
That works okay, sortof, if you are single and really do have a vocation. It is not possible to raise a family on that schedule with that income.
Any Episcopal priest who goes to the Catholic church is seriously in need of our prayers.
#9
I am not so sure about Cutie. If he were to recant and return to the Church, he would either have to have his marriage convalidated or be divorced. If convalidated, he would of course not be able to serve as a priest. If he were divorced, however, his marriage would qualify for a virtually automatic annulment for lack of form, for while he was in another church at the time, as a baptized Catholic his period away is regarded as a mere matter of the confessional. Anyway, he could return divorced and be back at the altar in a Catholic parish in pretty short order (though no bishop in his right mind would take him).
The scenario that better fits your point is the baptized Catholic who is later ordained Anglican. The pastoral provision does not provide for his future ministry as a Catholic priest. This is not just a matter of shutting down a loophole, but a matter of his Anglican ordination being a violation of his presumably formed conscience as a Catholic. It seems certain to me that the new apostolic constitution would refrain from making provisions in such cases as well.
11. You make good points. Our parish isn’t quite that busy–yet! If we do our job right, it will be though. As religious, we are two priests in our parish–a requirement of our way of life. You are right, about the typical Catholic parish not being entirely amenable to a married priest’s life. I agree. It can be challenging enough just for two priests to maintain a daily common prayer schedule. I am not at all complaining. It is a wonderful life with more grace than I can handle sometimes.
So, it would be the odd parish that would be big enough to support a family and small enough to not overwork their priest–unless they were a parish with a protestant background accustomed to supporting a family. And that is just the kind of parish that would be coming over under this arrangement.
Anglicans have been doing it for 5 centuries, they will likely do just as good a job now as Catholic priests.
One point that makes me wonder, though, there really cant be a practice of divorce among Catholic clergy. I suspect Rome would require resignation in such a case.
Does anyone know of such a case?
One last comment before I move on…
It strikes me the utter humility with which the married Anglican bishops are accepting to no longer serve as bishops. Presumably as a college they have worked very hard on this move. They are making great sacrifices. Our prayers should be with them. I gave up marriage in the abstract; they are giving up a ministry in the concrete. There’s is the greater sacrifice.
#12 I thought Fr Cutie was defrocked? He is currently a married Episcopal priest. It makes no difference if he recants and/or divorces. As #10 correctly states he would not be eligible for Pastoral Provision.
#15
Mr. Cutie has been suspended from exercising his priestly faculties; he is an excommunicate (automatically incurred) by virtue of his (public) act of schism; and, presumably, he should/will be dismissed from the clerical state (see canons #1364, #751, and #290-93 on loss of the clerical state).