The best comment –
[i] Submitted by StJulian at 8/31/2007 8:32:36 AM
the same folks who don’t want the US to enforce immigration laws So I tell them that these African bishops are just doing jobs American bishops won’t do. [/i]
Uh . . . they’re laypeople, Bob Carlton. The PR hacks and the “political operatives” would be the ENS folks. The laypeople commenting on the story — including Christopher Johnson, who I recall is a librarian or something — would be the people amused and befuddled and insulted over the, er, baldfaced obfuscation told by the original news story.
Sarah, Christopher Johnson’s site is neither amusing or edifying. You need not be ordained to be a hack, an operative or just plain destructive in the way in which church is constantly turned into a game of gotcha.
And before you reply, let me simply say I find all wings of the US Anglican tribe to be engaged in this sport of gotcha, which can only make Screwtape smile with joy.
Bob, despite his denials, don’t you know “Sinner” is a reappraiser posing as an over-the-top reasserter? He has a long history of blog comments on reasserter blogs. Go to his own blog, admiralofmorality.blogspot.com (I think) to read what he really believes.
RE: “Sarah, Christopher Johnson’s site is neither amusing or edifying.”
LOL. So says the progressive. ; > )
Of course, it is amusing and edifying to many many reasserters. And progressive Episcopalians and reasserting Episcopalians don’t share the same definitions of “amusing” and “edifying” . . . kind of like the words “gospel,” “Jesus,” “Holy Scripture,” “marriage,” and much more.
And of course, when you used the word “hacks” you modified it by the word “pr”. And no, Chris Johnson is not a “pr hack” nor a “political operative”. He’s a layperson who works in the secular world.
But . . . it’s unsurprising how little progressives enjoy laypeople pointing out just how deceitful Pravda Press attempts to be. The nice things is . . . thanks to the Internet . . . Pravda Press can only attempt, rather than succeed now.
The quoting of paragraph 26 of DeS
[blockquote]The interventions by some of our number and by bishops of some Provinces, against the explicit recommendations of the Windsor Report, however well-intentioned, have exacerbated this situation. Furthermore, those Primates who have undertaken interventions do not feel that it is right to end those interventions until it becomes clear that sufficient provision has been made for the life of those persons.[/blockquote]
without referencing paragraph 32
[blockquote]Second, those of us who have intervened in other jurisdictions believe that we cannot abandon those who have appealed to us for pastoral care in situations in which they find themselves at odds with the normal jurisdiction. For interventions to cease, what is required in their view is a robust scheme of pastoral oversight to provide individuals and congregations alienated from The Episcopal Church with adequate space to flourish within the life of that church in the period leading up to the conclusion of the Covenant Process.[/blockquote]
is now standard operating procedure on the liberal blogs it seems.
Dear Bob,
TEC purports to be a Church – it should not be putting out disinformation on its official news organs. The PR crowd are much better at 815 then anything the traditionalists seem capable of fielding – I have consistently argued that the traditionalists need more and better PR hacks and political consultants. 815 needs to be exposed for what it is (from what I see they want to spread a new (and false) gospel and care deeply about the money) – I would love to see 30 second attack ads on news channels about their theological positions and legal strategy until they cry uncle and let our people go. I think this fight is going to get a lot uglier before it is over – and I would posit that that is a good thing compared to he reality of 815 cooking the traditionalist frog slowly as it has done over the last 40 years. I think screwtape would smile broader if we did not keep hitting hard.
robroy, but it’s worse than simply not quoting various paragraphs to establish context.
The ENS story said this: “The Anglican Primates, at their February meeting in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, acknowledged that interventions by bishops and archbishops of some Provinces have heightened “estrangement between some of the faithful and the Episcopal Church [and] this has led to recrimination, hostility and even to disputes in civil courts.”
But the communique actually said this: “It is also clear that a significant number of bishops, clergy and lay people in The Episcopal Church are committed to the proposals of the Windsor Report and the standard of teaching presupposed in it (cf paragraph 11). These faithful people feel great pain at what they perceive to be the failure of The Episcopal Church to adopt the Windsor proposals in full. They desire to find a way to remain in faithful fellowship with the Anglican Communion. They believe that they should have the liberty to practice and live by that expression of Anglican faith which they believe to be true. We are deeply concerned that so great has been the estrangement between some of the faithful and The Episcopal Church that this has led to recrimination, hostility and even to disputes in the civil courts.”
In other words, ENS took a whole QUOTED chunk from the Dar communique and applied that QUOTED chunk to the wrong people!
The best comment –
[i] Submitted by StJulian at 8/31/2007 8:32:36 AM
the same folks who don’t want the US to enforce immigration laws So I tell them that these African bishops are just doing jobs American bishops won’t do. [/i]
Too funny!
wow, what a wonderful bunch of comments and insights to share about following our Lord
It’s junk like this – and stuff from the other end of the pew – that make me pray no non-believer stumbles upon.
Screwtape must be overjoyed !
What upsets you Bob? The ENS article or the fact the they were cought lying?
both, br michael
i can not honestly say that either “saide” in this skirmish distinguishes themselves as much more than pr hacks & political operatives, IMHO
Uh . . . they’re laypeople, Bob Carlton. The PR hacks and the “political operatives” would be the ENS folks. The laypeople commenting on the story — including Christopher Johnson, who I recall is a librarian or something — would be the people amused and befuddled and insulted over the, er, baldfaced obfuscation told by the original news story.
Sarah, Christopher Johnson’s site is neither amusing or edifying. You need not be ordained to be a hack, an operative or just plain destructive in the way in which church is constantly turned into a game of gotcha.
And before you reply, let me simply say I find all wings of the US Anglican tribe to be engaged in this sport of gotcha, which can only make Screwtape smile with joy.
Bob, despite his denials, don’t you know “Sinner” is a reappraiser posing as an over-the-top reasserter? He has a long history of blog comments on reasserter blogs. Go to his own blog, admiralofmorality.blogspot.com (I think) to read what he really believes.
RE: “Sarah, Christopher Johnson’s site is neither amusing or edifying.”
LOL. So says the progressive. ; > )
Of course, it is amusing and edifying to many many reasserters. And progressive Episcopalians and reasserting Episcopalians don’t share the same definitions of “amusing” and “edifying” . . . kind of like the words “gospel,” “Jesus,” “Holy Scripture,” “marriage,” and much more.
And of course, when you used the word “hacks” you modified it by the word “pr”. And no, Chris Johnson is not a “pr hack” nor a “political operative”. He’s a layperson who works in the secular world.
But . . . it’s unsurprising how little progressives enjoy laypeople pointing out just how deceitful Pravda Press attempts to be. The nice things is . . . thanks to the Internet . . . Pravda Press can only attempt, rather than succeed now.
The quoting of paragraph 26 of DeS
[blockquote]The interventions by some of our number and by bishops of some Provinces, against the explicit recommendations of the Windsor Report, however well-intentioned, have exacerbated this situation. Furthermore, those Primates who have undertaken interventions do not feel that it is right to end those interventions until it becomes clear that sufficient provision has been made for the life of those persons.[/blockquote]
without referencing paragraph 32
[blockquote]Second, those of us who have intervened in other jurisdictions believe that we cannot abandon those who have appealed to us for pastoral care in situations in which they find themselves at odds with the normal jurisdiction. For interventions to cease, what is required in their view is a robust scheme of pastoral oversight to provide individuals and congregations alienated from The Episcopal Church with adequate space to flourish within the life of that church in the period leading up to the conclusion of the Covenant Process.[/blockquote]
is now standard operating procedure on the liberal blogs it seems.
Dear Bob,
TEC purports to be a Church – it should not be putting out disinformation on its official news organs. The PR crowd are much better at 815 then anything the traditionalists seem capable of fielding – I have consistently argued that the traditionalists need more and better PR hacks and political consultants. 815 needs to be exposed for what it is (from what I see they want to spread a new (and false) gospel and care deeply about the money) – I would love to see 30 second attack ads on news channels about their theological positions and legal strategy until they cry uncle and let our people go. I think this fight is going to get a lot uglier before it is over – and I would posit that that is a good thing compared to he reality of 815 cooking the traditionalist frog slowly as it has done over the last 40 years. I think screwtape would smile broader if we did not keep hitting hard.
Interesting that Sinner talks about himself in the third person – is that a sign of multiple personality disorder? 🙂
robroy, but it’s worse than simply not quoting various paragraphs to establish context.
The ENS story said this: “The Anglican Primates, at their February meeting in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, acknowledged that interventions by bishops and archbishops of some Provinces have heightened “estrangement between some of the faithful and the Episcopal Church [and] this has led to recrimination, hostility and even to disputes in civil courts.”
But the communique actually said this: “It is also clear that a significant number of bishops, clergy and lay people in The Episcopal Church are committed to the proposals of the Windsor Report and the standard of teaching presupposed in it (cf paragraph 11). These faithful people feel great pain at what they perceive to be the failure of The Episcopal Church to adopt the Windsor proposals in full. They desire to find a way to remain in faithful fellowship with the Anglican Communion. They believe that they should have the liberty to practice and live by that expression of Anglican faith which they believe to be true. We are deeply concerned that so great has been the estrangement between some of the faithful and The Episcopal Church that this has led to recrimination, hostility and even to disputes in the civil courts.”
In other words, ENS took a whole QUOTED chunk from the Dar communique and applied that QUOTED chunk to the wrong people!