An Anglican Church pastor and his wife were assaulted by Security agents in Luxor on March 18, 2010, in order to evacuate them by force from their home and demolish Church property. Out of the nearly 3000 sq. meters of buildings attached to the Church, only the 400 sq. meter prayer hall was left standing.
Pastor Mahrous Karam of the Anglican Church in Luxor, 721 km from Cairo, said that the Church was still in negotiations with the Luxor authorities the day before regarding a replacement for the community center building which lies within the Church’s compound, and was told the authorities were still considering their options. Early next morning, a 500-man force of Central Security and State Security blocked all roads leading to the Church compound, forced their way in and broke into the pastor’s residence, dragging the family out by force.
In an effort to save the buildings from demolition, the Pastor sat on the fence of the Church compound, to prevent the demolition work, but was beaten and dragged away, reported Katiba Tibia News.
For a moment, I thought I was reading an article from the Binghamton, NY paper about actions of the Episcopal bishop there.
Steven,
There is no comparison between the treatment of Christians in the Middle East and reasserters here. It really demeans the realignment process (and the Church in Egypt) to make that remark, even in jest.
[url=http://catholicandreformed.blogspot.com]Catholic and Reformed[/url]
Reply to Jeremy (#2.).
Jeremy, isn’t the difference just one of method? Jack boots and bulldozers in Egypt and velvet slippers and tea cups in Central New York.
I’m trying to find a distinction between the Episcopal/Egypt situation as well. Property is destroyed in either case, human suffering in either case; The climate is different….. and the Episcopal Church avoids broken bodies.
I pray for suffering christians everywhere.
Don
Okay, then the Churches……ALL of them……should register a very strong complaint through the Anglican Communion and Roman Catholic Church’s representatives to the United Nations……with an equally strong note to the Egyptian Ambassador.
I guess we can now add Egypt to the list of Pakistan, Nigeria, Tunisia, and ……All of the Middle East
Um, I thought that Egypt was one of the “moderate†Muslim nations.
I wonder what the term “moderate†actually means when applied to nations under Islamic rule. Perhaps it is moderate that the Pastor was only beaten and not beheaded.
What does this sort of moderation bode for nations with Islamic immigrants? I seem to recall incidents in France a few years back…but then, that was an isolated case. Of course, there was that series of incidents in England…but again, that was an isolated case. Oh and then there was that whole thing in Denmark…yet, I suppose that too was an isolated case.
Where will the next isolated case turn up, I wonder?
I am so reassured that Islam is a religion of peace.
#7. S&T, You are right on point about “moderate”. Compared to some of the Iranian Imams they are moderate. Many people inside Egypt are not at all moderate, however. They are in fact terrorists. Many of those on the planes flying into the World Trade Center and the pentagon were Egyptians. I have seen no apology from the Egyptian government. Does anyone know if there was one?
AnglicanFirst (#3),
In my view it doesn’t begin to compare. Whatever one’s views on the charity of those involved with the Good Shepherd debacle (I have written to the Bishop of Central New York protesting how the property was disposed of – no response; no surprise), the battle over property has involved a legal process in which the state itself has not played favorites (even if you believe that the judges involved have a liberal bias).
No one in ACNA is dying for their faith or even being assaulted. I wonder what some in the Global South make of the cry: “we too are suffering for the faith,” when they truly know what it is to suffer. Yes, many in ACNA have made sacrifices and have endured abuse but it is nothing compared to what is recounted in this article (never mind in Rwanda and Zimbabwe, Burma and China).
Reply to #9.
Do you think that if the rector of the Binghampton Church had physically resisted eviction from his church, even just displaying strong and insistent passive resistance, that he would not have faced criminal charges and quite possibly been jailed?
Do you think that the Bishop of the Diocese of Central NY would have come to his assistance?
TL, Egypt has always been on that list.
I would urge some care with this story. When it first came across the news wires I was surprised to read this took place in Luxor, as the Diocese of Egypt doesn’t have a congregation in Luxor. Nor has the news been disseminated through their diocesan offices in Cairo. That is not to say that this is not true, but some of the facts may be garbled—-perhaps it is a church in the Anglican tradition? This does not diminish the tragedy of Christian persecution in Egypt, though.
George Conger
I’m afraid I must agree with Jeremy Bonner here. There is no real comparison. The Egyptian case is far, far worse.
This outrageous and inexcusable abuse should be trumpeted far and wide. Massive publicity is the best antidote to this kind of horrific, intolerable behavior. Fortunately, Egypt is NOT Sudan; it doesn’t just openly and brazenly flout American and world opinion. But as the Christmas Day (Jan 7 in Egypt) massacre in Nag Hammadi showed, violent Islamic terrorist activities are not unheard of in Egypt.
Moreover, Coptic Christians still make up roughly 10% of the Egyptian population, even after centuries of persecution. And even we Anglicans aren’t a totally insignificant minority, with some 750,000 believers, under the fabulous ++Mouneer Anis, who is both brave and wise. He will need all that courage and wisdom, and more (from God), to deal with this shameful incident.
God bless Fr. Mahrous Karam and his traumatized family, including the church family. May the Lord somehow turn this for good and redeem it for his glory, as he alone can do (Rom. 8:28-29).
David Handy+
“Fortunately, Egypt is NOT Sudan; it doesn’t just openly and brazenly flout American and world opinion.”
American opinion doesn’t count that much today.
Thanks, George (#12).
You’re right. Luxor is so famous, it’s easy to imagine how the story might have been oversimplified in the process of transmission. It’s always good to check the facts first before raising a stink about such a report.
But with regard to the earlier little tiff among us over the comparison with what happened in Binhamton, I guess my gut level instinct was to resist such comparisons. It not only tends to demean real violence (if this story is indeed true), but such facile comparisons also all too easily suggest that we Americans think we’re the center of the world and everything revolves around us. The fact is, it’s not all about us.
David Handy+
NRA (13.) said, ” There is no real comparison.”
Yes there is.
When you consider the differences in American culture and Egyptian culture and adjust for those differences, then its all the same.
Schori has already stated that there are two different religions in the Episcopal Church. The action of the Bishop of Central NY was taken to repress the orthodox Anglicans at the Binghampton parish who had dared to oppose his revisionist agenda.
So, the bottom line is, religious oppression in Egypt and religious oppression in Binghampton, NY.
There is no comparison between being booted out through legal maneuvers and being dragged out and beaten, with one’s life in danger. I don’t think, thank God, that most of us in the U.S. can really imagine what religious persecution is like. It’s embarrassing to see the two compared as equal.
Reply to #17,
So, we disagree.
Once obvious similarity is the use of government authority and government force (or latent threat of force) to impose the will of one religious group upon another religious group.
In Egypt, the oppressing religious group was that group, likely Muslim, that opposed the rector of the church that was demolished.
In Upstate NY, it was the Diocese of Central NY that opposed the orthodox rector of the Binghampton, NY church and his orthodox congregation.
They both used the force of government.
Is your objection based upon Egypt’s Third World status and the fact that its government is not a democratic government?
Christians should not be forcing their beliefs on each other using oppressive tactics. When we do, we open ourselves to justified accusations of oppressive behavior.
The Diocese of of Central NY can make this ‘go away’ by selling the parish property back to the parish in Binghampton at the price offered by that parish. Its three times the price that the diocese is willing to accept from a nonChristian faith.
By the way? Doesn’t that 1/3 price offer to the nonChristian group smack of a vindictive act following an oppressive act on the part of the Diocese of Cntral NY?
Where’s the Episcopal Peace and Justice folks. They just went to the UN to get all current on UN policies and maneuvers. Tell ’em to get busy! What with 815 so close to the UN and all, it should not harm the environment and they talk a blue streak about how peaceful Islam and all those folks are.
I thank George Conger about the word of caution on this story. This church may not be connected to the Episcopal/Anglican Diocese of Egypt. That said, the Egyptian government is excavating the street banked by ram-headed sphinxes which ran in pre-Christian times from the Egyptian temple at Karnak to the Luxor temple. This goes right through medieval Luxor and people are being displaced. I would not be surprised if compensation is inadequate or absent. Given that this is the Egyptian government, very likely Muslim places are getting a better deal.
Very sorry to hear about this. I note George Conger’s caution – hopefully we will learn the truth soon.
#12 George,
It was the Evangelical Copt church in Luxor, not an Anglican one. This from the March 24 edition of the U.S Copts Association news postings :
http://www.copts.com/english/?p=4101#more-4101
“On Thursday march 18, 2010, an Evangelical Coptic church at the city of Luxor, in southern Egypt was also attacked and demolished (6). This attack however was conducted not by mobs but by the security forces armed with heavy machinery. The claimed pretext for this attack was an edict to demolish the building to allow improvements. Though the norm for such actions would be preceded by an order to vacate allowing a reasonable period of time for the owners to vacate the premises and provide adequate compensation, Pastor Mahrous Karam, the minister of the local Evangelical Coptic church and his wife were not allowed adequate time to vacate the premises. They were instead assaulted, beaten, and their home furnishings and belongings thrown out on the street in a frenzy to rush actual demolition of a major portion of the building.”
w.w.
w.w., that would explain the confusion. Egyptians, I found, frequently did not know what an “Anglican” was, and “evangelical” was what they thought I said. Christians are thought to be Coptic, Catholic, or evangelical.