[blockquote]”…explore these cavernous depths…”[/blockquote]
Most of the pew dwellers in TEC need to see what is dragged out of those depths. I fear the majority are punching the clock on Sundays and are not interested in looking into the cavern.
If the elves would allow me to ask a question (and if not, I understand). For those T19 readers who are in the Diocese of SC and feel you are in a Christ-centered and Holy Spirit-filled church, how are you personally dealing with the Episcopal and even Anglican church storm overheard? . . . and are your clergy helping you deal with it or are they asking you to ignore it (or something that is equivalent to soldiering on without focus on the issue)?
As a new member of the Diocese of SC – a transfer from a neighboring diocese – I am impressed with the leadership at all levels. Bp. Lawrence’s statement reflects our steadfast mission without getting sidetracked on the apostasy of TEC which is a given.
Tammi, as a clergyman in the Diocese of SC let me tell you how I’ve responded:
1. I have regular parish-wide meetings, including Q & A, providing updates, and personal commentary. Among other things, I validate their pain and embarrasment while wanting to bring an historical and biblical perspective, drawing upon previous church conflicts.
2. I write about events on my blog, including my personal thoughts on all matters.
3. I am up-front with folks in our new members class about the mess. Amazingly, the mess has not been much of deterrent: +Fitz was just here for our 3rd adult confirmation service of the year, confirming 67 adults.
4. I attempt to “keep the main thing the main thing.” That is, we preach the Gospel (to the best of our abilties). Having recognized the conflict – above steps – we focus on Jesus and His message.
5. We are heavily engaged in mission & evangelism.
6. We pray – a lot! Our intercessors keep these matters as a regular feature of prayer.
7. For those who feel the need to separate themselves we, very sadly and with much love and many prayers, help them find a church home in a denomination (or non-denomination) that will nurture their faith and allow them to be fruitful members of the Kingdom.
May I say that nothing has driven me to my knees more, nor caused me to shed more tears, than the manner in which the Reappraisers have rent asunder the bonds of our affection, and, more importantly, betrayed their sacred trust given by Christ Himself to protect and nurture His Bride.
Steve Wood
St. Andrew’s ~ Mt. Pleasant, SC
+Mark Lawrence’s statement is amicable but forthright. His language of exploring the “theological chasm” between the Diocese of SC and TEC’s leadership is apt enough. It’s significant that he carefully avoided making inflammatory and derogatory comparisons. I feel no need to inhibit myself in that fashion.
I used to describe the “chasm” between orthodox Christianity and the new religion being promote in TEC as being similar to the Grand Canyon in size and depth. You simply can’t build a bridge over a chasm like that.
Now, however, I think even the Grand Canyon analogy is too weak. These days I usually compare the gulf between the two camps as being more like the Atlantic Ocean!
Analogies help, but are not perfect. I used the chasm analogy once in a parish class in Arizona. My illustration was our own Grand Canyon. An older member came up and said she was on both sides of the chasm. She believed everything she had been taught in Sunday School, but she was fully in favor of same-sex blessings. I could have gone into the link between our beliefs and our social ethics, but it wouldn’t have gotten me very far.
Another problem with the chasm analogy is that chasms are obvious and ridiculous to deny. Take the Grand Canyon. Yep–that’s a chasm.
There is another geological analogy that may work better–a deep, dangerous, geological fault. You can straddle the San Andreas fault, but it goes deep and has great potential force locked up in it. You wouldn’t be allowed to build a house or church on top of it.
The theological differences that manifest in the surface issue of same-sex blessings and ordinations go to the ultimate depths of who God is, whether God has revealed unified truth in the Bible, who Jesus was/is, how his ethic works out today, what the Gospel is, what the mission of the church should be, and other points.
Bishop Lawrence’s point stands, whatever side you are on in the current debates. The issues are great, deep, and dangerous. It does no good for anyone to keep minimizing them.
[b]Pb[/b] – thank you for your reply! I find it hard to express to those not in the same boat how I feel blessed to be in my parish, in my diocese, but not in my national church.
[b]Steve[/b] – I do read your blog and thank you for it! I know there is a fine line between having a parish/members focus too much on this issue (or collection of issues) at the expense of the MAIN THING. Up to this point, I’ve barely broached the subject with my rector NOT through any fault of his but for fear of overstepping that delicate balance. I haven’t quite figured out if the Holy Spirit is telling me to stop reading and start talking to my fellow parishioners, but I do know he’s telling me NOT to stop praying!
[blockquote]”…explore these cavernous depths…”[/blockquote]
Most of the pew dwellers in TEC need to see what is dragged out of those depths. I fear the majority are punching the clock on Sundays and are not interested in looking into the cavern.
A gracious statement that does not shy away from the truth.
Take your parachute when you explore. It’s a long drop.
If the elves would allow me to ask a question (and if not, I understand). For those T19 readers who are in the Diocese of SC and feel you are in a Christ-centered and Holy Spirit-filled church, how are you personally dealing with the Episcopal and even Anglican church storm overheard? . . . and are your clergy helping you deal with it or are they asking you to ignore it (or something that is equivalent to soldiering on without focus on the issue)?
As a new member of the Diocese of SC – a transfer from a neighboring diocese – I am impressed with the leadership at all levels. Bp. Lawrence’s statement reflects our steadfast mission without getting sidetracked on the apostasy of TEC which is a given.
Tammi, as a clergyman in the Diocese of SC let me tell you how I’ve responded:
1. I have regular parish-wide meetings, including Q & A, providing updates, and personal commentary. Among other things, I validate their pain and embarrasment while wanting to bring an historical and biblical perspective, drawing upon previous church conflicts.
2. I write about events on my blog, including my personal thoughts on all matters.
3. I am up-front with folks in our new members class about the mess. Amazingly, the mess has not been much of deterrent: +Fitz was just here for our 3rd adult confirmation service of the year, confirming 67 adults.
4. I attempt to “keep the main thing the main thing.” That is, we preach the Gospel (to the best of our abilties). Having recognized the conflict – above steps – we focus on Jesus and His message.
5. We are heavily engaged in mission & evangelism.
6. We pray – a lot! Our intercessors keep these matters as a regular feature of prayer.
7. For those who feel the need to separate themselves we, very sadly and with much love and many prayers, help them find a church home in a denomination (or non-denomination) that will nurture their faith and allow them to be fruitful members of the Kingdom.
May I say that nothing has driven me to my knees more, nor caused me to shed more tears, than the manner in which the Reappraisers have rent asunder the bonds of our affection, and, more importantly, betrayed their sacred trust given by Christ Himself to protect and nurture His Bride.
Steve Wood
St. Andrew’s ~ Mt. Pleasant, SC
+Mark Lawrence’s statement is amicable but forthright. His language of exploring the “theological chasm” between the Diocese of SC and TEC’s leadership is apt enough. It’s significant that he carefully avoided making inflammatory and derogatory comparisons. I feel no need to inhibit myself in that fashion.
I used to describe the “chasm” between orthodox Christianity and the new religion being promote in TEC as being similar to the Grand Canyon in size and depth. You simply can’t build a bridge over a chasm like that.
Now, however, I think even the Grand Canyon analogy is too weak. These days I usually compare the gulf between the two camps as being more like the Atlantic Ocean!
David Handy+
Re: #6 Steve, Maybe we should clone his approach and move it into the upstate.
Analogies help, but are not perfect. I used the chasm analogy once in a parish class in Arizona. My illustration was our own Grand Canyon. An older member came up and said she was on both sides of the chasm. She believed everything she had been taught in Sunday School, but she was fully in favor of same-sex blessings. I could have gone into the link between our beliefs and our social ethics, but it wouldn’t have gotten me very far.
Another problem with the chasm analogy is that chasms are obvious and ridiculous to deny. Take the Grand Canyon. Yep–that’s a chasm.
There is another geological analogy that may work better–a deep, dangerous, geological fault. You can straddle the San Andreas fault, but it goes deep and has great potential force locked up in it. You wouldn’t be allowed to build a house or church on top of it.
The theological differences that manifest in the surface issue of same-sex blessings and ordinations go to the ultimate depths of who God is, whether God has revealed unified truth in the Bible, who Jesus was/is, how his ethic works out today, what the Gospel is, what the mission of the church should be, and other points.
Bishop Lawrence’s point stands, whatever side you are on in the current debates. The issues are great, deep, and dangerous. It does no good for anyone to keep minimizing them.
[b]Pb[/b] – thank you for your reply! I find it hard to express to those not in the same boat how I feel blessed to be in my parish, in my diocese, but not in my national church.
[b]Steve[/b] – I do read your blog and thank you for it! I know there is a fine line between having a parish/members focus too much on this issue (or collection of issues) at the expense of the MAIN THING. Up to this point, I’ve barely broached the subject with my rector NOT through any fault of his but for fear of overstepping that delicate balance. I haven’t quite figured out if the Holy Spirit is telling me to stop reading and start talking to my fellow parishioners, but I do know he’s telling me NOT to stop praying!
It’s mighty dark in those “cavernous depths.” You’ll need your Light.