The Church of England has been accused of censorship for shelving a controversial debate about Islam.
A meeting of the Church’s “parliament” was due to discuss whether clergy should be doing more to convert British Muslims to Christianity.
The sensitive issue was highlighted last week by a senior bishop who accused Church leaders of failing to reach out to other faiths, and warned that radical Islam is filling a gap in society caused by the decline of traditional Christian values.
But now the Church has put off the debate on recruiting Muslims until next February at the earliest and will discuss the promotion of churches as tourist attractions instead.
[blockquote]Mr Eddy said yesterday (tue): “I think they’re censoring it on theological grounds and because of the timing.
Ten days before Lambeth there would be lots of bishops who would not be comfortable voting on the uniqueness of Christ.”[/blockquote]A sadder commentary on the state of the Church of England would be hard to imagine.
[blockquote] “Ten days before Lambeth there would be lots of bishops who would not be comfortable voting on the uniqueness of Christ. “[/blockquote]
Sad commentary on the church isn’t it.
RSB
[blockquote]But now the Church has put off the debate […] and will discuss the promotion of churches as tourist attractions instead.[/blockquote]Well, unless we can agree that Christ is unique and his sacrifice was once for all (Heb 10:10), a tourist attraction is indeed all we are – so we can just as well talk about that, I guess. It totally beggars belief. I’m getting ordained in the CoE later this month but things like this would almost make me doubt what precisely I am being being ordained into.
It does speak volumes…..to scared to even debate issues of the day how pathetic is that. But then WO was never properly debated…only pushed through in a muddled way. The church of England seems to loath clarity of any sort in its bid to remain relveant to everyone and offensive to no-one. A far cry from the ministry of the Christ they claim to adore
Now I Know why TEC are after the Buildings, tourist attractions. No need for congregations to support the clergy when you have the money comming in from tourists.
Spot the difference
Looks like ‘Can’t, Won’t, Shan’t’ has arrived on our shores.
Much more important things to discuss like breaking our promises on women bishops to the anglo-catholics.
[blockquote] Luke 9:26 26 If anyone is ashamed of me and my message, the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when he returns in his glory and in the glory of the Father and the holy angels.[/blockquote]
What more needs to be said?
Have you seen this piece from the London Telegraph about police in Brimingham, England, seeking to prevent Christians from sharing the gospel with Mulsims in ‘Muslim areas’:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2058935/Police-advise-Christian-preachers-to-leave-Muslim-area-of-Birmingham.html
So Nazir-Ali was right about Muslim no-go areas being set up in England, and Rowan Williams was right about sharia being incorporated into English law.
England is being cantonized.
This really shouldn’t be unexpected. Most of the First World countries in the Anglican Communion are majority Universalist. I only wish they would be willing to admit it.
As for converting Muslims, they are not interested. Unless you are advocating conversion by force/violence, then leave them alone. Wipe the dust from your feet. Or don’t. Up to you.
Far sadder is the fact that that last bit comes out of the mouth of our ArchBishop who ought to and does know better. It sounds like something Schori would do in her never ending habit of replacing the first purpose of Christianity with one of its far more secondary ones.
The Church should not be about reconciliation or peacemaking between other faiths if if she is not first and foremost in the business of winning souls to Christ. We are not God’s referee on Earth, our primary function is to spead the good news to every soul alive both today and forever until the Kingdom come.
Its precisely because of this awful habit of trying to supplant that primary purpose that the Church has become one of many social services organizations & lost in the crowd of them. What does such a body have to offer that hundreds of others cannot also?
I think of all people, in this context particularly, Rowan should watch what he says. But that might be expecting to much, I’m afraid. 🙁
I think, rather, that “Can’t, Won’t, Shan’t” haven’t just arrived on Blighty’s shores. It’s just that the volume has been turned up. I very sadly believe that the CofE is finally being shown up to be the hollow shell that it is (with some wonderful exceptions).
[i]As for converting Muslims, they are not interested.[/i]
Perhaps, Brian. Certainly centuries of Christian-Muslim contact would suggest that for a majority of Muslims (though you clearly do not consider that many Muslims have through the centuries and to the present day have converted to Christianity, some of whom – like Abo of Tiblisi – are saints of the Church).
But consider that we are not the ones who do the converting. God the Holy Spirit is the one who turns the hearts of human beings to God the Father through God the Son.
We are called to give faithful witness. Or not.
Which would then make us [i]un[/i]-faithful.
[i]But now the Church has put off the debate on recruiting Muslims until next February at the earliest and will discuss the promotion of churches as tourist attractions instead.[/i]
Reading “evangelizing Muslims” for “recruiting” the same, this reads like intentional parody, almost like some Monty Pythonesque satire on the Church of England.
I don’t know whether to laugh, cry, or get angry.
[blockquote]Most of the First World countries in the Anglican Communion are majority Universalist[/blockquote]
#11 That isn’t my experience after serving 14 years in the parishes in the COE. But I bow to your greater evidence. I would be deeply grateful if you could point me to it
Brian,
I don’t believe that it is a case of disinterest on the part of Muslims. Having made something of a study of that faith, I came to realize that that faith immunizes its believers from conversion to other faiths in any number of ways from the earliest age. The chief among these is that when learning the faith one’s Muslim identity is rather purposely confused with one’s identity as a member of a certain ethnic or tribal group and most important of all with one’s identity as a member of one’s own family. Basically, its drilled into the heads of Muslims from day one that to leave Islam is to literally become nothing and noone even if you do happen to avoid being killed for doing so.
As I said, this is just one of the ways* I don’t believe that any of them are insurmountable. The lack of mass conversions in the past history from Islam to Christianity is mainly due to lack of real contact as both groups were in defensive mode from the other for such a long time.
I hear too many despairing of the task. I don’t understand that. We Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead. How could that be true and yet it be impossible to ultimately win great numbers of Muslims to Christ? We need to remember our hope and Who it is that we have hope in.
*another important way that Muslims are immunized is that it is drilled into them that Islam is the most modern and progressive faith and that to change religion is to take a step down or back. Noone wants to be backward do they? They are also taught a false, or paper tiger version of Christianity where Christianity is the basically the same as Islam and offers nothing that Islam does not have. That letter from all those imams to the Pope is a perfect example of this. In it they say something to the effect that both religions are based on or primarily concerned with living a moral life and being a good person. The first response that would come to mind of any reasonably educated Christian would be to reply that our faith is primarily concerned with worshipping the Risen Christ and all the rest comes second and follows out of love for him, that is, morality is important but its not the center of our faith. Rather it is a result of our faith in Christ, an effect on us of our belief in him. This makes for a world of difference.
Sub-Saharan African Christians are very effectively converting Muslims in large numbers. It can be done. One has to be a Christian believer first before undertaking the work of evangelization.
#17 makes some very pertinent comments about the group dynamics that hold people in Islam, the very corporatist identity that makes Islamic societies so backward and prone to violence. Those same features from the Indian sub-continent have been reproduced in Britain, creating enclaves of Pakistan and Bangladesh, even down to the way they do patronage politics over there.
But the wider issue is the timidity and lack of confidence of the established church in proclaiming its message. Muslim imams generally despise Christians as not really believing their own message.
I would suggest all three.